Episode 24 – How to Sell Yourself with Corinne Mills

July 5, 2015 Podcast

Welcome to the 24th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast.

This week I speak with Corinne Mills, bestselling, author and Managing Director of Personal Career Management, as we delve into the topic of how to sell yourself effectively on your job hunt. We explore how and why you should be proactive in selling yourself, the importance of body language and vocal tonality, and share some great tips on how you can begin to share your skills without coming across as arrogant. If you’re currently looking for a job, or even if you’re in work but looking to progress through the ranks, then this is an episode you’re not going to want to miss.

You can download the podcast to your computer or listen to it here on the blog. Additionally, you can subscribe via iTunes or Stitcher radio.

MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:

  • Why you need to sell yourself effectively
  • How to talk about achievements in a positive way on your CV
  • How to discover what your strengths are
  • How to make an impression face to face
  • The importance of body language to sell yourself effectively
  • Why you need to pay attention to your tone of voice
  • The top ways to begin to talk about your skills
  • Why you probably shouldn’t worry about coming across as arrogant in an interview situation

SELECTED LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

  • Check out the ‘How to Get a Graduate Job’ step-by-step online course at https://howtogetagraduatejob.com/
  • Don’t even think about applying for graduate jobs until you’ve read my free guide, ‘The 5 steps you must take before applying for graduate jobs’. Click here NOW. It will completely change the way you apply for jobs!
  • Would you like a free 30-minute video coaching call? Simply select a time that works here https://calendly.com/gradjob/ We can go over your CV, application, or anything that you are struggling with.
  • Assessment Day – One of the top providers of psychometric tests. Click HERE and support the show
  • Career Gym – Use code GJP to get 20% off all of their tests!
  • Job Test Prep – One of the top providers of psychometric tests. Click HERE and support the show
  • Change Your Life In Seven Days – Corinne’s book recommendation. Click on the link to buy NOW from Amazon and help to support the show!

Transcript – Episode 24 – How to sell yourself with Corinne Mills 

James:     A very warm welcome today to Corinne Mills, bestselling author of Career Coach and You’re Hired! How to Write a Brilliant CV, and also the managing director of Personal Career Management, the UK’s leading career coaching and outplacement company.

Corinne, a very warm welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast.

Corinne:  James, thanks for inviting me on.

James:  So, before we jump into our topic today of how to sell yourself effectively, would you like to tell us a little bit more about what it is that you do and how you became a career coach, author and MD?

Corinne: Okay.   Well, what do I do? I work with people with all kinds of career challenges, from people who aren’t quite sure what it is that they want career-wise or maybe they’re in a role and they’re not sure that this is totally a good fit, to people who know exactly what they want. They just want some help in going out and getting it. And that’s perhaps the salesmanship side.

I also work with people in jobs as corrective coaching. So, really helping people from career choices to self marketing, to effective performance in their job all the way through, and to do that I have a team of coaches who do that as well, and I do training workshops. So, really, my life is consumed with people’s career challenges and how we can help with that.

James:  Excellent and you mentioned there about self promotion and today we’re going to talk about how to effectively sell yourself in the recruitment process. I know one of the most common complaints I get from people I coach is, I just don’t know how to sell myself. So starting at the beginning, Corinne, why is it important that people sell themselves effectively?

Corinne: People need to sell themselves because people who are going to recruit you are likely to be strangers and they are not going to know you and they are not psychic. So, you have to give them the information they need in order to make a good judgment about whether you’re the right person for the job or not and I think what, the opportunity that’s next is that there are lots of very, very talented capable people out there who don’t get the opportunity for the jobs that they want because they can’t sell themselves. It’s not that they can’t do the job. It’s that it’s the salesmanship piece. So, in some respect you say, it’s not fair. You know, why should you have to go through this sales process in order to prove you’re the right person for the job but, you know, that’s the reality and recruiters are making such snapshot judgements rightly or wrongly. You know, it might be 10 seconds on a CV, it might be a 45 minute, hour interview and it’s an imperfect recruitment process. But in those short windows of time you are going to have to make a good impression if you want that job.

James:    And speaking from a British point of view, is it something that as a culture we tend to be quite but out blowing our own trumpet?

Corinne: Yes, we are. To be fair, I think there’s quite a few other cultures as well, a culture of modesty and I think particularly in this country there’s a real, you know, when you’re in a job the focus is on team. It’s “we” did this. It’s a very team orientation, and then suddenly you go into the job market and they’re talking about achievers. They don’t want to know what the team achieved. They want to know what you personally did. So the “I” pronoun comes in. I did this. I did that.   So it can go quite unnatural for people but it is a necessary shift in pronoun.

James: So if we start, maybe go through each aspect of the recruitment process. So, the CV tends to be the, the CV or application form, tends to be the first one. How do you recommend people talk about themselves and their achievements in a positive way? You mentioned the switch to using “I” but in a CV that can get quite repetitive because people tend to overuse it. So, what would you recommend is one of the best places to start with a CV or application?

Corinne: First of all, before you even put, you know, your fingers on the keyboard to make your application you have to do your research. You have to really understand what it is that they are looking for and too often people make assumptions about what they think the recruiter is looking for. So, that doesn’t just mean looking at the job description, looking at the advert, looking at the person’s application because I guess recruiters will tell you exactly what it is they want because they don’t want to be sorting through applications from people that are unsuitable. So, they give you some sort of guidelines there but additionally, do some research about the company. What kind of company is this? What kind of stats are they operating? What is going to be the priorities? Is it fast moving? Is it innovative?   Is it likely to be bureaucratic? Is it systems orientated? Get a sense of the whole organisation and their modus operandi, if you’d like, the way that they work and you can take off an awful lot of that from their website, from PR and press releases that will again, will be on their website and if you can, talk to people who work in that organization or know of them, or the kind of role that you’re going for. So, before you sit down to make an application you’ve got a really rounded realistic view of what the job entails and what they’re looking for. So that’s your starting point.

Then, your CV and application are used to focus on their priorities. Quite often what people do is they’ll think, well, I’ll just splurge down on paper all the things that I think are important about me. Actually, you need to kind of change that around. What is most important for them so you are cherry picking all of the important things that you can do that they want to hear about. So it should definitely be that in that order so it makes it very easy to see in that first 10 seconds, in that first half page of your CV all the stuff that’s relevant for them.

James:  No, you make some brilliant points there and personally I’m always surprised because for me it’s such an obvious thing is to get the job spec and, you know, just to go through and to tick off each part to make sure that you’ve covered it all in the CV and whether it’s up at the top on the key skills or summary or just make sure that it’s in there somewhere.

Corinne: Well, absolutely. Yes. One would think it would be obvious but actually quite often people miss it. Again, if people understand that that person’s application form is the recruiter’s decision criteria. So, I mean, literally it will be going through and thinking that it might be this person if they prove that they satisfy this criteria. Tick. Great. Cross, if they’ve not mentioned it. Question mark, is it equally not good. You have to be very specific about those things.

James:  Sticking with CVs, I know a common mistake, I find, is that people just list, just list things without any backup to backup the statements they’re making. So, I’m hard working. I’m dedicated. And they just list them out without then specifying how they are those things.

Corinne: Absolutely. You’ve got to, you’ve got to substantiate any claims that you make. You know, if you talk about yourself in, you know, a future leader and dynamic individual and innovative, well, come on. Let’s see the proof with the examples of that. I think people worry about bragging and blowing their own trumpet but actually, if you satisfy their criteria, perhaps you are incredibly innovative;                                        and for example, I created this or I or I initiated this, or one of my ideas for this program was run with and adopted by the company. They’re not bragging. That’s actually factual evidence and that’s reality and I think that’s definitely where people need to go and provide examples.

James: How would you recommend that people can begin to discover what their strengths are and what they’re really good at?

Corinne: I think that’s a really interesting question for people more at the start of their career because sometimes what people think they will like and are interested in and think that they are good at, they kind of need to go out and tests, because actually, they might find that it’s something slightly different. So, I just think work experience of some sort or another whether paid, unpaid, doesn’t matter whether it’s relevant to the particular job that you’ve got in mind and then you might want to go work in financial services but you are going to go and be a waiter, you know, as in interim role. Actually, it’s just fantastic experience and you learn really quickly, well, actually I am good at time management. I do really enjoy working with customers, or I hate it. I’m really interested on the systems side, or the sales side of that. So, actually, I do think you might already have some ideas from other activities that you’ve been involved in. Maybe you were in, you helped organize some events when you were at university and you enjoyed that or you’re interested in that particular subject and what’s going run with that. I don’t think there’s anything quite like going and trying some work experience in those fields to work out whether it’s compatible with what you might want to do in the future.

James:  I completely agree and nothing beats work experience on a CV as well.

Corinne: Absolutely. I think interestingly, kind of culturally, what I’ve noticed with some international students there is a tendency to — and culturally — you get all your academics together, you get your results and then you go out and get your work experience. So everything kind of is put on hold while you get the best possibly you can. Actually, it is so important, if you want to work in the UK and actually I think it’s so important to get some work experience while you’re graduate, even if you’re taking a year off post grad to go and do some travelling. Do some work experience also during that so you’ve got something to talk about to a potential employer.

James:  I completely agree. So, moving on from the CV to the next stage, so probably an interview, face-to-face interview, what would you recommend for people in terms of how they can make that first impression when they walk in the room?

Corinne: I think they need to look like they want to be there. Actually, they need to be enthusiastic, smiling. You know, it doesn’t matter if they come across as being nervous. Most people are nervous at interviews and actually, it’s a sign that you care about the job, actually. So don’t worry about seeming, you know — or not showing the stress of nerves. Some nerves is fine. I think sometimes people think they need to play it cool, that they shouldn’t come across as being too desperate and that yes, this is an opportunity to, you know, find out whether the organization is and what that organization can do for them and whether they are right for them. It’s a two way process. Well, you know, yes, it is a two way process but unless you go into that interview looking enthused, motivated, committed, you generally want to be there, you’re not going to get the job offer. They’re not going to give it to somebody who looks like they really couldn’t care whether they want it or not. So, I think in terms of making that impact, you want to go for jobs that you really want and you’re interested in because there’s no point in going to jobs that you’re not interested in, but actually, let that kind of, that will show from the body language, if you’re generally interested in the job.

James: It’s one of the things that is very difficult to fake is that initial enthusiasm of if you are interested in the company and you are interested in the industry, you know, it’s something that you’ve got a passion about and you read about it, you can’t fake that and it comes across so well, in whether it’s a telephone interview or a face to face interview. People naturally want to work with people who are interested and keen.

Corinne: And that will be a competitive advantage. Now, I’m not saying that people will give you a job just because you’re committed and keen. You have to show you’ve got the capabilities to do the job as well. But actually, if you show you’ve got the capabilities to do the job and you come over as enthusiastic, that is a competitive edge and sometimes — and I’ve seen it lots and lots of times — people who look great on paper, get into that interview which clearly can do the job but actually, they’re not very focused. They’re a bit cool. They’re not going to get the job offer because they’re own ambivalence is translating itself to the interview.

James: So, we talked then about the enthusiasm. How important is body language or the way that people carry themselves into the room?

Corinne: Body language is really important because actually it just, it tells your state of mind. So, it’s like visual cues that the recruiter then picks up on and could signify what’s really going on beneath the surface. So in a respect you can be giving really great quality answers and really well thought through, you know, on the money but actually, if you’re delivery it in a contested way, if you’re slumped or while you’re doing that you keep shifting in your chair, it completely does undermine the contents of what you’re saying; so, the two have to very much go together. Now, I do think it is something that actually people are very self aware, or the two very difficult for you to know how you’re coming across in an interview. So I always suggest that people do a mock interview with someone who can give some honest feedback about the messages that they are receiving, not just verbally, but those kind of visual feedback as well from the body language.

James: And how about tone of voice, as well, with just the way that people speak. We talked about people might be a bit shy. How important is tone of voice and just how people project themselves?




Corinne: Having a voice is really, really important and I think what’s kind of interesting sometimes about graduates is that they are still finding their talent voice in a formal interview situation because it’s sort of relatively new kind of formal interaction, if you like. Sometimes they’re not quite sure of the voice. So for instance, I’ve seen candidates who use either a very girly voice or an apprentice type voice. You know, something that they feel acquired, that they feel like actually I need to put this forward or to be posher than they are and there’s something that’s just a little bit of a strain on their voice, so it doesn’t feel authentic.

So I think they have to be comfortable with their own voice and don’t worry, you know, there’s no, there’s no – actually, there’s no issue about people, accidents or where they come from or how close they are. It is about most importantly being authentic, speaking up so that you can be heard and that self belief that I think , you know, people doubt themselves and their tone of voice becomes quite tentative but actually if they believed in what they’re saying and they feel energized and passionate about what they’re saying, then their voice, even if it’s the acquired voice, will come across as quietly competent.

James: I think the word that stood out for me that you used as “authenticity” and going back to what we talked at the beginning about, you know, knowing why you’re applying for the company and having that knowledge of yourself and what it is that you want from the role and what your values are and just being able to carry that forward into the interview. So you’ve got the confidence about who you are, you know, you’re positive on the job, you want the job and just being out to embody that and take it all forward.

Corrine: Yeah, and you know, I’m not saying that that is an easy task because, you know if you’re 21 or 22 to know who you are in a professional contents and all of those things, you know, that takes, in that case sometimes people never get there. You know I work with people, you know, in their fifties who are still trying to work that out. So, that’s not an easy task and employers know that you are not the fully formed article, but what they’re looking for is potential. They are looking for people who’ve got energy, intelligence, kind of a work ethic and who if they invest in, will be a really good performer for them. And that’s what they’re looking for. And you know, if you can show that you understand what the job is and you really want to do it, you’re more than three-quarters of the way there.

James:  How should people talk about their specific skills within the interview itself? Should they be proactively trying to insert them into each of the answers? Or waiting more for the more generic questions that they might get asked?

Corinne: I think that’s a really good question because, you know, you will get some good interviewers and you will get bad interviewers. Now a good interviewer should hopefully be out try to elicit all this information for you and you’ll be able to, you know, if you’re talking about one of your strongest skills, then your answer is going to be ones that are truly ones you are good at but also that are relevant for the job. That’s very much their priority. Then what you’re doing is an example to prove that. Oh, yes, well, for instance, I do think I’m a good team player because I worked in this project team to get this done. So, you know, you’re putting examples in there. Having said that, if you don’t get the good interviewer and you don’t have the opportunity, I really want to tell them about this because it’s so relevant for the job, I mean, don’t ask about it, then volunteer it. You and just say, oh, and you might also be interested to know that actually I’ve got this experience. Don’t let the interview go without you mentioning the things that you want to say and then sometimes people do say, ah, they didn’t ask me that and I really wanted to tell them about this. Well, actually, you can just volunteer this at the end. Just say, you might also be interested in this bit of information.                             .

James: That’s a really good point. And how can people make sure that they’re not verging, having the confidence to talk about themselves and sell themselves but without verging across the line into arrogance?

Corrine: I think arrogance is when it’s unsubstantiated. Actually so it’s like empty vows, I think as long as you are proving with examples that you’ve done what you’ve said you’ve done, again that’s just factual. In my experience most people, I’d say 99 percent of people, undersell themselves. So everyone was worried about those things and bragging, but actually they need to turn the dial up most of the time. On occasion — and I would say that this is exceptional in my experience — graduates who go over the top. I mean I do remember working with one graduate when I first saw their CV I thought they were the CEO of their organization, multibillion pounds organization, not a 22 year old intern. So that was an exception. But isn’t it interesting that so many people worry about boasting and being, you know, bragging when actually they should be worried about underselling themselves.

James: That’s a really interesting point. So you recommend even if you feel like you’re boasting that you still need to crank it up a level?




Corrine: Yeah. You do, and this is a life skill. So this isn’t just about getting your next job. This is the same skill that you will be using for progression in your organization. It’s about your ability to talk positively about yourself, actually. The organizations are full of really hardworking people doing every job. Who are the people that progress and get on? It’s the people that are hard-working but they also let other people know how hard they’re working and at what their achievements are; as whereas sometimes the people who just quietly get on with it, can get a bit stuck and don’t get noticed. So, the more the graduate can develop this skill to be able to talk positively about yourself — I mean, it is a practice thing and it is about people feeling that they have permission to talk positively about themselves, it’s okay — the more they can develop that, the more it’s going to help them in their career.

James: I think that’s a brilliant point and thinking back through when I started on a large graduate scheme, so everyone who joined the scheme was all, everyone was very competent, everyone was very good but it was the people who blew through the organization upwards and onwards were the ones who were promoting themselves well;, who let people know they were doing good things, who sent, got feedback from clients and just, you know, made sure it was fed upwards to the right people and at the promotion process, you know, they were the people that were getting promoted quicker than anybody else and there’s some people who found it very difficult to handle because they, maybe, they saw themselves doing a good job and it was difficult to see these people who just flew past them.

Corrine: Yeah. You know, and sometimes that’s unfair because, you know, they may well get promotions when there might be other people who could do the job equally, if not better than them but that is the reality and I think if you can get to grips with that and acquire those skills and practice those and deploy them, that’s going to be to your advantage.

James: Definitely. As you said, it’s a skill that will stick with you all throughout your career.

Corrine: Yeah. Absolutely.

James: Corrine, unfortunately time is running away with us so before we finish, let’s move to the quick fire question round. So which one book would you recommend to our listeners that they should read?

Corrine: Well, I remember when I was first starting my business in 2003 and that was really a scary time; the career change, and I found that Paul McKenna book, Change Your Life in Seven Days, incredibly helpful. I know sometimes we can think it’s a bit cheesy and I could see that you’ve been in the tabloid only recently but I actually felt it was incredibly helpful. So for anybody who seems a little bit wobbly, need to get a boost in terms of self belief and anything to do with your career it’s very helpful, I think it’s a really good book.

James: Super, it’s one I’ve seen. I’ve not actually read it. So, I’ll have to get —

Corrine: It’s an audio book. So you read it and there is a bit of NLP programming going on but I just thought, it’s worth your time since that can be quite helpful.

James: No, definitely. And what one website would you recommend?

Corrine: Of course apart from the Personal Career Management site, lots of resources on there, I do think the Guardian Career site is really good. There’s lots of really great articles on there. There’s Q&A forums. There’s lots of interactivity. It’s great stuff for graduates. Yeah, I think that’s well worth looking at.

James: That’s an excellent tip. And all the links that we have discussed in the show will be found on the show notes at graduatejobpodcast.com including, as Corrine mentioned, the link to Personal Career Management where you can find all the links to Corrine’s many articles across the press which I definitely recommend reading.

And finally, Corrine, what one tip can listeners implement today to help them on their job search?

Corrine: Ask for advice, I think. It’s because this is tricky stuff and actually other people can be really valuable and helpful to you. So don’t think you have to do it alone. Ask for advise and people happy to help.

James: Corrine, thank you very much for your time today. Before we finish, what is the best way for people to get in touch with you and your writing and your books?

Corrine: So if they go to the personal career management site, www.personalcareermanagement.com they can email me by the site and I’d be happy, happy to talk to people there.

James:  Corinne, thank you very much for appearing on the graduate job podcast.

Corrine: Pleasure. Thanks, James.

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