Episode 74 – How to find an Inspiring Graduate Job with Scott Mautz

July 9, 2018 Podcast

Hello and welcome to the 74th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast.  I’ve gone trans-Atlantic again today to bring you a very special guest; best-selling author Scott Mautz joins me on the show for a thought provoking episode where we explore how to find an inspiring graduate job. Scott is the author of the new book ‘Find The Fire’, and we explore this in detail as we delve into what will fire you up and get you excited in your first graduate job, and conversely, what are the things which are going to pour cold water on that passion and have you looking to move on to a different job. We explore the topic of finding happiness at work, looking at how to find what will inspire you, even if you haven’t worked before. Conversely we also delve into 9 anti-muses to finding passion and inspiration at work, how you can recognise them, and what you can do to avoid them. We touch upon whether it’s realistic to expect to be inspired all of the time in your graduate job, and what to do if your current job doesn’t excite you. Scott also shares some brilliant insights into the topic of confidence, such as how to tackle a fear of failure when applying for a graduate job, and how to increase your self confidence in a job interview or assessment centre.  No matter where you are in your job search, just starting out or through the application process. This is an episode that you won’t want to miss.

As always all links, and a full transcript can be found in the shownotes at graduatejobpodcast.com/inspiration.  From there you will also find links to all of the other 73 episodes which cover every aspect of getting a graduate job, from help with interviews, assessment centres, to specific companies, to finding a job you love. Check them out and you won’t go far wrong.

Don’t forget, also make sure you check out check out http://www.graduatejobpodcast.com/subscribe which links to how to subscribe on Itunes, Spotify, Youtube, and by email. So something for everyone there.

And don’t forget to check out today’s sponsor who are our friends over at CareerGym.com. Career Gym is the number one place for you to undertake all of your psychometric tests which you will face when you apply for a graduate job. No matter what graduate job you apply for you’re going to have to face some type of verbal reasoning, situational judgment, and working style tests. You can practice these at CareerGym.com. Use code GJP to get 20% off all of their tests!

MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:

  • How to find a graduate job which will inspire you
  • The 9 anti-muses which will drain your inspiration and passion at work
  • How to find what will inspire you, even if you haven’t worked before
  • Discover why it’s not realistic to be inspired all of the time in your graduate job
  • Exactly how to tackle a fear of failure when applying for a graduate job
  • How to increase your self confidence in a job interview or assessment centre
  • How to control your negative self-talk when applying for a job
  • How to decide if you are settling, or if it’s the right graduate job for you.

SELECTED LINKS INCLUDE:

IF YOU LIKED THIS EPISODE, CHECK THESE OUT:

Transcript- Episode 74- How to find an Inspiring Graduate Job with Scott Mautz

Announcer: Welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, your home for weekly information and inspiration to help you get the graduate job of your dreams.

James: Hello and welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, with your host James Curran. The Graduate Job Podcast is your home for all things related to helping you on your journey to finding that amazing job. Each episode I bring together the best minds in the industry, speaking to leading authors, entrepreneurs, coaches and bloggers who bring decades of experience into a byte size weekly 30 minute-ish show. Put simply, this is the show I wish I had a decade ago when I graduated.

Hello and welcome to the 74th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast. London is in the middle of a heatwave, the world cup is in full swing and England have even been doing well, so forgive me for not having an episode out for a few weeks. I hope your job applications haven’t been similarly side-tracked. But I’m back, braving the heat to bring you some more brilliant episodes to help you find a graduate job. This week, I’ve gone trans-Atlantic again today to bring you a very special guest, best-selling author Scott Mautz joins me on the show for a thought provoking episode where we explore how to find an inspiring graduate job. Scott is the author of the new book ‘Find The Fire’, and we explore this in detail as we delve into what will fire you up and get you excited in your first graduate job, and conversely, what are the things which are going to pour cold water on that passion and have you looking to move on to a different job. We explore the topic of finding happiness at work, looking at how to find what will inspire you, even if you haven’t worked before. Conversely we also delve into 9 anti-muses to finding passion and inspiration at work, how you can recognise them, and what you can do to avoid them. We touch upon whether it’s realistic to expect to be inspired all of the time in your graduate job, and what to do if your current job doesn’t excite you. Scott also shares some brilliant insights into the topic of confidence, such as how to tackle a fear of failure when applying for a graduate job, and how to increase your self confidence in a job interview or assessment centre.  No matter where you are in your jobsearch, just starting out or through the application process. This is an episode that you wont want to miss. As always, all links, and a full transcript can be found in the shownotes at graduatejobpodcast.com/inspiration.  From there you will also find links to all of the other 73 episodes which cover every aspect of getting a graduate job, from help with interviews, assessment centres, to specific companies, to finding a job you love. Check them out and you won’t go far wrong.

Don’t forget, also make sure you check out check out http://www.graduatejobpodcast.com/subscribe which links to how to subscribe on Itunes, Spotify, Youtube, and by email. So something for everyone there.

Before we start let’s have a little message from today’s sponsor who are who are our friends over at CareerGym.com. Now if I said to you, are you ready to do verbal and numerical reasoning tests for the job of your dreams tomorrow? I bet most of you would say no, well graduate employers don’t hang about, some of them give you as little as 2-3 days notice before you have to do the tests! So you need to make sure you are ready and willing to do the tests and start practicing now, which is where Career Gym comes in. Career Gym is the number one place for you to undertake all of your psychometric tests which you will face when you apply for a graduate job. No matter what graduate job you apply for you’re going to have to face some type of verbal and numerical reasoning, situational judgment, and working style tests. You can practice these at CareerGym.com, as well as numerical, and abstract reasoning tests. They are all produced by testing experts, and exactly the same as the ones you will see in the real graduate job tests. You can just practice them as you want, or you can do them in exam mode, under time pressure, and they come all with detailed explanations and solutions, and you can track your progress and see how you compare against your peers.

If you’re applying for a graduate job will have to do them, so pull your finger out now and start revising straight away to make sure you don’t fall at this first hurdle. I’ve been recommending this site for years to the clients I coach and it comes very highly recommended. What’s even better is if you use the code GJP, you will get 20% off of all of their tests. You can’t say fairer than that. So, head over to http://www.CareerGym.com that’s CareerGym.com and use the code GJP to get 20% off and start practicing today.  Now, on with the show.

James:  I would like to welcome to the show a very special guest, he has led several multibillion dollar businesses. He is an award winning speaker, he was named a CEO thought leader by the CEO executive guild and a top 50 leadership innovator by INK magazine. He teaches leadership and employee engagement in Indiana University. He is the author of Find The Fire: Ignite your Inspiration and Make Work Exciting Again and also Make It Matter. All the way from the USA, welcome to The Graduate Job Podcast, Scott Mautz.

Scott:  So happy to be here and hello to all of your listeners out there.

James:  So thanks for joining us and just reading that introduction, where do you find the time?

Scott:  Like any of us it is all a matter of choices and when you love your job, it seems to free up magically.

James:  Very true, I have given the listeners a brief intro there. Would you you like to fill in any of the gaps on anything that I have missed?

Scott:  Sure. I am a Procter and Gamble veteran, a company based out of the United States. I spent almost 25 years at Procter and Gamble leading really giant businesses, as I like to say the thing that I am most proud of was not just that I was able to lead those businesses successfully, but that the organisations grew and the people within it became the best versions of themselves. I was fortunate enough to be leading them and that has really spurred a big passion in me, James, to get out in the second season of my professional life, to help people find their own fire, to help people find the right kind of jobs that will sustain their motivation over the long haul and motivate people to get out of a job they don’t love, to help reignite their passion, so your show and what I am all about is really a great fit.

James:  Ah brilliant and again, thanks for your time today. We are going to delve into your latest book Find The Fire: Ignite your inspiration and Make Work Exciting Again. Scott we are in a great position because in the book you talk about how 70% of people aren’t inspired at work, which is a shocking statistic. But given my audience, hence given its name, the majority of listeners are looking for a graduate job or that first big job. Today hopefully we can hopefully inspire them so they don’t end up as one of the 70%. So as job seekers, how can the listeners ensure that the job they are applying for is going to fire them up and inspire them?

Scott:  It is a fantastic question and I think to help understand that, it helps to understand how do we lose our way when we do enter a job. What is so interesting is James, folks enter a job and they turn back and they figure out their not so passionate about it anymore. Which as you pointed out, which is 70%, the vast majority will say that. It helps to stop and say how did they get into that position? If we can understand that then we can help all the citizens who are about to enter the job world from making the same mistakes. When you survey and research the people who are in those jobs they are not passionate about it, what you discover is they ultimately try and work their way out of that by asking themselves the question, I can light my own spark here. What inspires me, and whatever the answer is I’ll do more of that, I’ll do that it will be easy. But then it is never that easy because the things that inspire us almost by nature, are passive, elusive and are easily repressed. The better question to ask is how did I lose my inspiration in the first place? When you can answer that question it begins to unveil how people in the workforce can lose their inspiration and what people who are about to enter the workforce can look for in their potential suitor employee. So that they don’t jump into an environment that contains these toxic elements. So these elements are what I called the nine anti-muses. They are forces that drain the inspiration over time in a job environment. Whether you are in a job now, it is important to understand, but if you are looking for a job like many of your listeners are, or finishing their studies in university and thinking of moving on, these are the things to look for and identify whether or not that work environment might contain them. So if you would like to James, I can quickly talk through these nine forces that your audience should be on the lookout for?

James:  Yes, that would be amazing, thank you.

Scott:  Okay, so I’ll do that. Again if you are out there listening and are thinking how do I know if a company is right for me? These are the nine things to look for. First of all, the first thing that drains inspiration is fear. Fear of failure or criticism. Get to know the people in the company and find out if there is a culture of fear because over time that turns out that it is an incredibly toxic emotion to deal with and I can promise you, it will drain inspiration over time. The second thing you should look for, the second anti-muse if you will, is a sense of settling and boredom. Again if you are going to enter a company then you really should do your homework and not just talk to the people that are going to interview you but talk to friends or family, anyone who will sit down with a cup of coffee to tell you about the company. If they tell you that they have become settled or kind of bored, know that that is a major force that over time will add up and will drain a lot of inspiration and joy out of work. You have to look for signs that the organisation keep their people challenged, and learning and avoids settling and boredom. The third force that drains our inspiration is a sense of inundation or being overwhelmed. This one is really easy to pick up in an interview or from talking to a company’s employee. Do you get a sense that the overwork and overwhelm is just a sense of the company’s culture? Do they make far too little choices? Is there far too many priorities? People running around like chickens with their heads cut off and this sense of overwhelm is just a sense of the way it is. That is going to add up over time and if it exists it is something you are really going to want to avoid in a company. The next anti-muse, the thing that drains our inspiration, is a loss of control. Do you sense that employees in the company have very little control over the outcomes and what they get a chance to be a part in? For example, do you talk to people who feel like they are rarely empowered? Very rarely are things delegated down to them, they have very little chance to take things and run with it, they have very little control over circumstances. That I can assure you James, can drain the passion for your work and you want to avoid that in an organisation that you are considering joining. Another powerful anti-muse is dwindling self belief. Some cultures are more likely to add to this than others and what I mean by that is, the types of people that you tend to talk to, do you find that they have started to doubt themselves and their own ability? That the place they work at continuously gets them to question themselves and whether or not they are good enough? Maybe it is the type of environment that rarely gives encouragement or positive feedback. Maybe it is the kind of place that has toxic managers and it shows up on the front lines that a lot of people are not very self confident. That would be a major warning sign to look out for and avoid if you are looking to join a company. The sixth source, and again these are not my opinions James, I have been studying what inspires us at work and what makes a company inspiring to work for, for over 20 years and I can tell you that these are very real. The sixth force is what I call disconnectedness. This happens when you have been in the company…it shows up statistically when you have been in the company around the year mark and you start to realise, I am not really that connected to my co-workers, I am outside of the clique. People have their own little things that they keep to themselves and do with themselves and people have their own little things in small groups, maybe you are made to feel like an outcast and are toxic in the culture and make you want to disjoin from the culture. It is really important to look for a sense of community in the culture, does it look like a cohesive unit where people have fun together? If not, I can promise you, it will wear down your soul over time and you will want to leave that job eventually. Three more forces to talk on and then we can go wherever you want. Another thing to look for, this one is sneaky James, very sneaky to look for in a company before you join it, is there an absence of people creating and expressing their genuine thought? People bringing unique creative contribution to the table every week and every day. Some places are wonderful at being creative at nature and bringing out the innovative best in them and the employees. If this isn’t the company you are looking at then be careful, because what happens is when we feel like we are no longer in control or contributing our unique creative contributions, it has a profound impact on our happiness at work. As human beings we have a central need to feel like we are creating and contributing uniquely to our place of work.

James:  Just jumping in there Scott, I think that is why I ended up starting the podcast. Not feeling fulfilled at work and needing a creative outlet outside of work, then looking to do something which ultimately became the podcast here.

Scott:  I’ll bet for you James, the podcast is fulfilling and enriching and is helping you learn and grow along the way. I’ll bet that you feel that you can make a difference in the world, are they fair statements?

James:  Absolutely. I feel I get that more from the podcast than I have done in my other work over the past few years.

Scott:  In there lies the problem, when we don’t get the opportunity to express ourselves creatively it can add up and make people pursue side projects in their life. There is nothing wrong with that but if them short comings end up highlighting the shortcuts in your work life it can become problematic over time. The other two forces to close out, I am talking about the anti-muses, the forces that research shows can drain your inspiration over time. They disproportionately significantly reduce your work inspiration over time , there is two left. This one is pretty devastating and I simply call it a sense of insignificance. If you feel like your work truly doesn’t even matter, you are not making that much of an impact on anything that matters to anyone, that is a real problem and young job candidates have a easy way of looking at this. Does the company have a profound mission? Does it have a sense of purpose? Do the people that you work with or the people you interview with, do you smell that they feel that what they do has a importance on the company? To the co-workers and to them? Is there a sense of significance to them? And if not, major warning signals before you go any further with the job. Finally and this is probably the easiest to spot of all of them, it is what I call lack of evocation. What I mean by that James, is that inspiration is often evoked by some external force, there is something that causes us to feel a sense of inspiration, well what if you work in a work environment were that is completely absent? A culture that is completely toxic or. Most often this shows up in the form of a truly nasty boss or manager or leader, despite all the lovely things you love about your job sucks the life out of it because they are a terrible human being or leader or manager. These things should be, hopefully, relatively easy to spot as you talk to the people that work there or talk to the people that report to the person that you might report to if you can find out who that is. It is something to avoid because it can destroy all the inspiration that you bring into the job. So those are the nine anti-muses, the things to keep an eye out for if you are looking for a job or things to get real with if you are feeling them and are in a job. We can steer anywhere you want now James.

James:  That’s brilliant and as a management consultant I have been in and worked in a number of different companies in the public and private sector and I think I have definitely come across all nine of them in workplaces. I think some of the work places have probably got most of them, you can just walk into a building and you can almost feel the energy being sucked out of you as you feel the nine anti-muses that you mentioned, in different forms or another, during the interview we will delve back into them a little bit further. But going back a little bit first, you talk in the book about what used to inspire you but what about if you are 21 years old and haven’t had much work experience? How then can you think about what has inspired you or will inspire you from a work perspective?

Scott:  Great question, it is a big factor I often point out when doing keynotes for a millennial crowd, they may look back and think ‘I haven’t lost anything yet because I haven’t gained anything yet’. That is where indeed it is ok to ask yourself, what inspires you and to understand, here is the important thing, if I were to ask you…let’s just try this little test and it will be a good example for your listeners James. Without thinking too hard James, what inspires you in your work life? When are you inspired?

James:  When I have got a good boss.

Scott:  Ok, so here is part of the problem with that, first of all it is a bit passive because you have to count on that boss being good and for the boss to do good things to make you happy. It can be elusive because statistics show most of us want a good boss, most of us want an inspiring boss more than any other factor. Less than half of us, or not even close to half of us can say that our boss is a inspiring or a good boss. Start with, I know a great boss will inspire me and if you know that in general, things that inspire you can be passive, elusive or repressed, enter that, knowing that. Look for it aggressively, don’t allow it to be repressed, know that to be true about you and keep that in perspective. So for you James, you know that a good boss lights you up, so when that boss has a bad day don’t let that get you down, don’t let that repress the good feelings you have about having a good boss. If your boss isn’t giving you enough time, that is where it becomes elusive and passive, that’s ok. You can express to your boss how important it is that they keep that one on one meeting time with you, once a week because you find him or her very inspiring and you draw energy from them. So it is a long way of saying, when you are very young in your career, be very clear on what it is that inspires you or why it inspires you and then protect it. Don’t let it be elusive, don’t let it get repressed, go after it aggressively and then protect it. Then you start to build up this little fundamental well that really inspires you. Quite often they are inline with our values. James you are inspired when you have a great boss because you want to be known as someone who is a great boss, is that fair?

James:  That’s true, it is always good when you get people who look up to you and respect the work that you do.

Scott:  Yeah, so often for young people the best place to start is with your core values. Anything that supports your core values is almost inherently going to inspire you, so keep at it. Think why why why does that thing inspire me? And you will start to identify the things. By the way when you jump into that work world, James, I’m sure you know this, but you quickly affirm or deny your thoughts on what is actually inspiring. So for example many people will jump into the work force and think ‘my first raise is going to be so inspiring’//

James:  //for about a week

Scott:  That’s what statistics will show. They believe that and they won’t repress it but then reality will kick in, ‘that raise really wasn’t that inspiring because of nine other things that are happening at work’. So keep an open mind when developing what inspires you, does that make sense?

James:  Oh no, brilliant and a really good end. Values are such an important thing to think about and it is often overlooked. People kicking off and looking for their first graduate job often take just the first job that comes across their path, without thinking about the values and what is going to make them happy further down the line. Just jumping into inspiration in a bit more detail, how important do you think it is to be an internal thing, as opposed to an external thing. All about finding inspiration within yourself, as opposed to needing it from somebody else?

Scott:  I think it is really crucial and in my book Find the Fire, frankly, out of all the anti-muses eight out of nine of the anti-muses, I am really pleading with the reader to understand that inspiration and truth is up to you. A big mistruth about inspiration is that people fundamentally believe that inspiration is something that happens to them. They have to wait around for inspiration to show up, that it is reserved for people that climb the mountains in Tibet and see a monk high on a peak, those are the people that find inspiration, and it is just not true. Social science teaches us that it is just not true. In truth inspiration can be qualified and you can coax it. You absolutely can create the conditions were inspiration is likely to happen and those conditions are the reversal of the nine anti-muses that I spoke about before. When you understand them you reverse course and create your own inspiration in your place of work.

James:  Brilliant, you mentioned before you spent a lot of your career at the Global behometh Proctor and Gamble, many of the listeners will be applying to the big companies like P&G who have schemes which hoover up lots of young graduates starting out. Do you think it is realistic for people who join these schemes to be inspired and fired up at work all of the time?

Scott:  I think it is inherently unrealistic. What I try to teach is, if you are inspired all of the time, then you are really missing something about life. Something must not be registering because it is inherently impossible. The key, is that it is all about balance and perspective and this is really important. James I think you inherently know this because this is what I know to be true about life, you need to feel some of that pain, you need to feel some of the downs to better appreciate the ups. The search for a job is not one for the perfect job, it is for the profound job. What I mean by that is the perfect job will not exist, I can promise you that. If your listeners take nothing else away, take that away. You will find flaws over time, it is human nature. You are not looking for perfect, you are looking for profound. Something that inherently links what is deeply meaningful to you at your core, what brings significance, what will help you grow and become a better version of yourself everyday. What links to your value systems so that your happiness is sustained over time and when it does suffer dips, and it will, if it is a profound choice that you made and you are deeply linked to your job, then your recovery rate will be three times the person who is not in a job that is truly right for them, if that makes sense?

James:  I guess it is just a balancing act to make sure that the dips don’t go on for three, four, five years, to find that what used to inspire you doesn’t anymore and you are in a job that you don’t like.

Scott:  So true, I have far too many stories I can tell about people who have gone on too long in a job that they didn’t like and they could have made a move much sooner and been happier a lot sooner. That is also human nature and that is probably why I have so many of those stories, so I would like your listeners to avoid that situation some time in the future.

James:  When we went through the nine anti-muses, one of the things I think is really prominent for people applying for graduate jobs and also one I see for people that I coach is fear, particularly a fear of failure, when they are applying for jobs. How can people begin to tackle this one?

Scott:  It is such a problem and research shows James, that for over 50% of all adults they would say it is the number one thing, fear of failure, that has not only stopped them achieving but revisiting their goals. It is incredibly common, it is incredibly powerful and one of the things I talk about in keynotes is, I show an MRI scan of a brain which is a pretty famous shot among neuroscientists and it shows the impact that fear of failure has…fear physically on the brain. Your users can easily picture this, picture a silhouetted shot of the brain , you see all these bright lights in the centre and the back half of the brain, that is the fear of failure triggering in the lobes of the brain and getting the brain to respond in the way that it will. What is fascinating about this MRI scan, is if you look at the front of the brain it is completely dark, there are no bright spots there and what that means is, that is the part of the brain that is responsible for risk taking, growth and exploration and the MRI scan shows essentially that the fear of failure literally, physically shuts down the part of our brain that is responsible for taking risk. It is a very real problem and it is mathematically impossible, even for your listeners who are saying ‘I hear you, but I am pretty good, I don’t suffer from fear of failure ’. It is mathematically impossible that you don’t have somebody in your life who doesn’t suffer from it. So what I often say is the most important thing to do is to engage our brains in a raw conversation. You have the power for you or yourself to reframe the way you think about fear of failure. I talk about this in the book and I will give you just a few examples of my favourite ways to do this, James//

James:  //yes, yes, please.

Scott:  I can’t tell you how many times I have done this to myself even as I have left corporate and entered the world of entrepreneur, I remind myself constantly, truth be told there is only three ways to fail; when I quit, when I don’t improve and when I don’t try. That is it. Those are the three ways to fail,  tell myself all the time that failure is an event, not a person. So many times over the years I have met people who attribute as a failure as a sign for things to come, it was an albatross in their life, it defined the person who they became to be and that is not the case, failure is an event, it is not a person. So many times I tell myself, because this is another way to reframe failure, failure doesn’t happen to you, it happens for you. It doesn’t happen to you to destroy you, it happens for you so that you can learn and grow and become a better version of yourself. One last way to reframe, and I have ticked off like four in 30 seconds, you can always remind yourself  that you’re not the one that really suffers when you fail, it is your ego that suffers. Your ego and you are separate, you’re not the same person and if you can see that and separate your ego and put it at the kids table with all your other unhelpful emotions, you will understand that you are not your ego you begin to understand that you are not your ego and failure doesn’t have to put a dent in you as a human.

James:  Brilliant Scott, that is such great advice that can be used when you begin to feel that knot of fear in your stomach and rising up when you are about to do something brave, so that you can rethink it in a different way. I see it with people that I coach talking about companies they want to apply for and you say to them ‘have you applied?’ And they say ‘no I’m a bit scared’, well you are never going to get the job if you don’t apply for it. You just have to take a step forward and embrace it, as you mentioned.

Scott:  Very well said.

James:  Another one of the other anti-muses is also kind of linked to fear, that you talk about, is dwindling self confidence. Especially with jobs when you go for interviews or to assessment centres, self belief plays such an important role in looking for a job. How can listeners begin to increase their confidence then?

Scott:  Yeah there is lots of ways to do that. I think one of the best ways to do that is to mind the inner monologue, its so interesting. For the the book I had the chance to interview a prominent hypnotherapist who taught me an awful lot about the human brain, how it works and psychologically what we go through when we go through this process of beating ourselves up, you know? This person told me that, and I found this utterly fascinating, but no matter the ailment she was treating as a hypnotherapist, no matter what it was. If someone came in and they were over eating, if they couldn’t stop cheating on their spouse, they couldn’t stop smoking or stealing, whatever they were treating, underneath it was the same underlying cause regardless of the ailment she was treating, and that was a fundamental belief of ‘I’m not good enough’. Why people don’t apply for that job that they really want, when you ask them why haven’t they applied, because deep in their heart they are saying that they aren’t good enough. So we engage in this unrelenting inner monologue that can just pummel us into a downward spiral and you have to know that it happens, be ok with it, accept it, know when you’re in the middle of it when it is happening and then gently talk to yourself like you would talk to your best friend. Pretend we are long lost friends, if I came to you and said ‘man, I had a rough day, I screwed up this meeting, my boss asked me a question and I blew it’. I highly doubt you would say ‘man, you really screwed that up, what a loser’

(Laughing)

No, you wouldn’t do that to me so why would you do that to yourself, so it is so important that you catch yourself and have that awareness. It sounds so easy, but really awareness is the first step, you have to be intentional, especially if you tend to beat yourself up about stuff. You have to catch yourself in the moment, when your inner dialogue is spiralling down. It is very teachable, it is very practicable, I have gotten better at it myself over the years James, and say to yourself, I am going to talk to myself like I would talk to a buddy of mine, I am not going to continue to beat myself up. Another way to stop the downward spiral, and this is really important, is to continue to seek authenticity and not approval. When we continuously compare ourselves, what I call the comparison dragon, to other people, it is a never ending chase of the tail, you will never stop. By the way it gets worse in the social media world we live in now James, for all the people we see on social media, I can promise you we are comparing our blooper reels to everyone else’s highlight reels. The best of everyone is projected on social media and it is creating a backdrop for us in society, especially millennials entering the workforce who are already one of the lowest self esteem based generations of all time and you have that as a backdrop. When you start to compare yourselves to others continuously it is such a source of misery. The only comparison that matters is to the person you were yesterday and are you going to be a better comparison to that than to somebody else and worry about being true to your authentic self and not to who others expect of you. When you try to be someone you are not, it not only ruins your self belief but you then believe you can’t even be your authentic self and it can all go downhill from there.

James:  I love that Scott and the comparisons thing is so difficult when you are applying for jobs and you see friends ‘Oh he has a job with so-and-so, paying X amount of money and this person has an internship and I have not got one yet or a summer placement for this company’. They might be applying for completely different jobs in different companies, doing something you might never want to do but you will end up comparing them to you. It is such a dangerous game.

Scott:  So true. I have seen it with so many strong, confident, able-minded people, if your listeners take only one other thing away then it would be that; the only comparisons that matter are to who you are yesterday.

James:  I love that and just on the self confidence thing and the inner monologue and it is something that doesn’t really go away. This will be episode 74 of the podcast but when I am approaching or meeting people like yourself or especially when I send out emails, the little thing on my shoulder says ‘they aren’t going to reply’ or will say ‘who are you I’m not coming on the show’. When you are launching shows I am still waiting on someone patting my on the shoulder saying ‘why have you got a podcast? Who says you can put content out there?’ It is something you just have to ignore, recognise but ignore and just crack on with what you were doing.

Scott:  That is right. We have to stop undermining ourselves but also be patient too James. All those things you just described are so incredibly normal, it is what it means to be human, we all doubt our place in the world and that’s ok. It is when you dwell too long that it gets harder and harder to pull yourself out of that. So as long as your listeners recognise that truth about themselves and that it exists. That is 50% of the battle. Then it is being intentional after to not let yourself dwell there.

James:  So Scott, time is running away with us today, so maybe one final question before our weekly staple questions. What one piece of advice would you give to someone who is starting out with their first graduate job and they are not really sure if it is for them? If they are not sure if they are settling or if it is a job that is going to inspire them? What advice would you give them?

Scott:  The most important advice I can give is to know what the nine anti-muses are, put them out in front of you and kind of walk through them. Not every anti-muse is going to be particularly troublesome for every single person but if you are aware over time what tends to drain the life out of us, it is very helpful to have that type of mind. Then you are alert and you are looking for that, looking for little signals rather than being oblivious when in the process of interviewing. So for example, you will spot signs of fear of failure in the company you are about to interview with, you will spot signs of creating or a loss of control, or of a community that is disconnected, four anti-muses I just spelled out. Know what those are, keep them in front of you, figure out which ones are particularly troubling for you and keep them alert when you are entering a new job and considering employment there.

James:  Brilliant, sound advice there Scott. Listeners you don’t have to worry about frantically writing down the anti-muses there, you will be able to find links and a full transcript for everything we have discussed today in the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/inspiration. You will also find links to Scott’s brilliant books there as well, so you can get yourself some copies. So Scott moving on to our weekly staple questions, putting you on the spot now. What one book would you recommend that listeners should read?

Scott:  I’ll pick books other than my own, one book I really enjoy is by Todd Henry and it is called Die Empty//

James:  //ah him//

Scott:  //it is all about getting all your create work out there in the life and the time you have been given to live on this planet. Highly recommend it.

James:  This is going to shame me now, but that book has been on my shelf for about three years and I have not got round to reading it. I am going to make sure I get round to reading it this weekend but that is a good recommendation. Scott, what internet resource would you point listeners to?

Scott:  Yeah, I love a resource called Un Splash. It is a really brilliant resource that allows you to download free really high quality, high def images and all that asks you to do is to give credit to the people that took the picture so that you are doing them good. So you are doing them good, and it is free images for you but then it is doing them good too. The images are fantastic, so for anyone who is putting presentations together, or has their own website for a product online, it is a wonderful resource.

James:  Ah I like the sound of that one, some of my images that I use on the website are pretty pony, so I will definitely look at Un Splash. If you notice listeners some uptick in the quality of the photos I am using then you can thank Scott for that one. Scott, final question, what one tip can listeners implement today to help them on their job search?

Scott:  For me, it is going to underscore a lot of what we have spoken about. It is finding an authentic fit for things that matter to you, not what is supposed to matter to you. So many young job candidates will go on the search for a job that they are supposed to want. The one their mum wants them to want, that their peers are going after, I can’t tell you how many friends I saw going into investment banking because the money was great and it seemed cool and everyone was doing way back when at the time. The happiest ones, are the ones right from the get go, even if you don’t find that job in first time, but you are true and honest with yourself to find a job that lines up with your authentic you and what truly makes you happy, because we only have one life. That’s the most important tip.

James:  Brilliant, that is a nice place for us to finish the interview on. Scott many thanks, what is the best way for people to get in touch with you and the work that you do?

Scott:  Thanks for asking, they can go to scottmautz.com and I have even put up a special gift up for your listeners today James. I have a free accompanying workbook that goes along with the book Find the Fire, if people wanted to download that then that will allow them to capture the main thoughts when we have an opportunity to clean things out. Especially in a fill in the blanks fashion, helps us retain key concepts, so your listeners can get the free downloadable workbook at scottmautz.com.

James:  Amazing, Scott thank you very much for appearing on The Graduate Job Podcast.

Scott:  Thank you for having me James, it has been a lot of fun.

James: There you go, episode 74 done and dusted. Many thanks again for Scott Mautz for a really fun and insightful episode. Lots to take away it. I think my favourite was his comment about failure, and that there are only three ways to fail; when you quit, when you don’t improve and when you don’t try. Very wise words. And if you take nothing else away with you but that advice for the next time you start to get scared as you look for a graduate job, you won’t go far wrong.  Do checkout the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/inspiration where you will find links to Scott, his books and everything we have talked about today. Whilst you are there don’t forget to head on over to graduatejobpodcast.com/subscribe and sign up so that you don’t miss a thing, despite my best intentions I know I can be sporadic in getting episodes out to you, so it’s the best way to stay up to date of what I’m up to. I’m also developing a brilliant course on how to get a graduate job which will distil down all of my years coaching into one place, so subscribe to make sure you don’t miss the launch details for that. If you have any questions, need some help coaching or with an application, then do drop me a line, again at hello@graduatejobpodcast.com. Finally, if you would like to support the show and to help ensure that I can keep putting out great episodes, one way you can do it is by clicking on the Amazon links in the show notes. Amazon provide a small commission to me if you do so, it doesn’t cost you anything but helps to keep the lights on here with hosting and the like.

So that is just about everything. Do join me next week when I speak with Sarah Cave, as we explore how to get a training contract. It’s a goodie. All that remains to say is I hope you enjoyed the episode today, but more importantly, I hope you use it, and apply it. See you next time.

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