Episode 87 – How to get ahead in your new graduate job, with John Lees

February 26, 2020 Podcast

Hello and welcome to the 87th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast where I am joined back on the show by best-selling author John Lees, who joins us to talk about everything you need to do get ahead when you do get a graduate job. We delve into John’s new book and explore everything that you need to do, and more importantly not do, in your first 100 days of your new graduate job. We explore exactly why the first 100 days of your new graduate job are so crucial, and why how you perform here could impact your career going forward. We cover the induction period, and why you should accept the fact that it’s probably not going to be as comprehensive as you were promised. We examine the key mistakes that new graduates make when they join a firm, and what you need to do to avoid them. We probe the topic of communication, and why listening and effectively communicating with senior people will set you on the path to career success. We also cover the difference between active and passive behaviours, and why embracing active behaviours will allow you to stand out from your peers. Now the only link you need to remember from today is www.graduatejobpodcast.com/getahead, as that has all of the links to everything which we discuss and a full transcript which you can download, so make sure you head on over there.

And don’t forget to check out today’s sponsor who are our friends over at CareerGym.com. Career Gym is the number one place for you to undertake all of your psychometric tests which you will face when you apply for a graduate job. No matter what graduate job you apply for you’re going to have to face some type of verbal reasoning, situational judgment, and working style tests. You can practice these at CareerGym.com. Use code GJP to get 20% off all of their tests!

MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:

  • Why the first 100 days of your new graduate job are so crucial
  • How to make an impact in your new job immediately
  • Why you shouldn’t expect the induction period of your new graduate job to be what you were promised
  • The key mistakes that new graduates make when they start their first job
  • The importance of effectively communicating with senior people when you start
  • Why listening effectively could set you apart from the other graduates
  • How to navigate the minefield of office politics in your new graduate job
  • The difference between active and passive behaviours, and why embracing active behaviours can set you up for career success

Don’t forget, also make sure you check out https://www.graduatejobpodcast.com/subscribe which links to how to subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, and by email. So, something for everyone there.

SELECTED LINKS:

Transcript – Episode 87 – How to get ahead in your new graduate job, with John Lees

Announcer: Welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, your home for weekly information and inspiration to help you get the graduate job of your dreams.

James: Hello and welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, with your host James Curran. The Graduate Job Podcast is your home for all things related to helping you on your journey to finding that amazing job. Each episode I bring together the best minds in the industry, speaking to leading authors, graduate recruiters and career coaches who bring decades of experience into a byte size show. Put simply, this is the show I wish I had when I graduated.

And thank you for joining me for the 87th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast, where I’m recording this from an island off the coast of Cambodia. I’ve a special guest on the show today a man who needs no introduction to regular listeners to the podcast. It’s the on the only, best-selling author John Lees, who joins us to talk about everything you need to do get ahead when you do get a graduate job. We delve into John’s new book and explore everything that you need to do, and more importantly not do, in your first 100 days of your new graduate job. We explore exactly why the first 100 days of your new graduate job are so crucial, and why how you perform here could impact your career going forward. We cover the induction period, and why you should accept the fact that it’s probably not going to be as comprehensive as you were promised. We examine the key mistakes that new graduates make when they join a firm, and what you need to do to avoid them. We probe the topic of communication, and why listening and effectively communicating with senior people will set you on the path to career success. We also cover the difference between active and passive behaviours, and why embracing active behaviours will allow you to stand out from your peers. No matter where you are in your job search, if you’ve just landed your first graduate job or are still applying, this is an episode which you aren’t going to want to miss. Now the only link you need to remember from today is graduatejobpodcast.com/getahead, as that has all of the links to everything which we discuss and a full transcript which you can download, so make sure you head on over there.

Before we start let’s have a little message from today’s sponsor who are who are our friends over at CareerGym.com. There are some things in life you can’t escape, and psychometric tests when you apply for a graduate job is one of them. Career Gym is the number one place for you to undertake all of your psychometric tests which you will face when you apply for a graduate job. The bottom line is that no matter what graduate job you apply for, from the global giants to that small company around the corner from you, you’re going to have to do some type of verbal and numerical reasoning, situational judgment, and working style tests. At Career Gym.com you can practice all of these and they come with detailed explanations and you can compare yourself against your peers or do them under time pressure. And as a valued listener of the show they will give you 20% off of all of their tests if you use the code GJP. So, head over to http://www.CareerGym.com that’s CareerGym.com and use the code GJP to get 20% off all of their tests and start practicing today. Now, on with the show.

James Curran: Welcome back to the Graduate Job Podcast, a man with a velvety voice who needs no introduction, bestselling author of umpteen career classics, including the brilliant How To Get A Job You’ll Love, Knockout Interview, and Cracking the Success Code, to name just a few. John, welcome back to the show.

John Lees: It’s great to be with you.

James: And today, we’re going to explore your latest book, which I really enjoyed, which is Get Ahead in Your New Job, links to which you’ll be able to find over in the show notes at GraduateJobPodcast.com/GetAhead. Now John, your other books focused on how to get a graduate job, but this one really takes it a step further and focuses on how to be a success in the first 100 days. Now, why do you think this is so important to new graduates?

John: Well, the first 100 days, classically, is a cut-off point where organizations make a decision about you, which surprises some people. But, we work in a culture where decisions are made about people really fast in terms of whether they’re likely to be success or failures. And the reason it’s important to graduates is that, often, this is the key time for mapping a way into the organization, establishing key relationships, and working out where your learning pathways are going to be. So, it’s not always just about hitting the deck running. It’s sometimes about working out how the job is going to shape up for you.

James: Definitely. And I’m surprised by the stat in the book that only 12% of employees say their employer does a good job of onboarding them. So, for graduates who are applying for that shiny graduate scheme of all the impressive blurb in their promotional materials, I think they might be surprised at just how poor a job their respective companies are actually going to do.

John: I mean, we don’t want to overegg things, because clearly there are some organizations doing really good graduate trainee programs. But, there’s quite a lot of data out there that suggests that induction programs are being reduced in their timing and funding, and in some organizations, seem to be disappearing altogether. And you can understand why, because if the philosophy is we really want to hire people who are job-ready and would want to get in with the job straight away, then the traditional model of easing them in gently is going to disappear.

And it really breaks down these kind of passive assumptions about what organizations are going to do for people. Because of the induction model really encourages passivity, it’s almost like a classroom model that says, “We’ll show you around, we’ll introduce you to all of these different departments. We’ll give you lots of familiarization, and then we’ll kind of gradually ease you into your new role.” And if that’s what you expect, then work may well be a shock for people at the graduate level and later.

James: Yeah, and thinking when I was starting my graduate scheme, it was a really formal three-week period. It was two weeks on off-site with all the new graduates, and they sheep dip you through all the different bits of the knowledge that you needed to know about the company, and then you had a week abroad at the company’s sort of university campus. It was a really thorough induction.

But, speaking today to one of the clients I coached who started their new graduate job just two weeks ago, he was saying that his induction hasn’t been as promised. The person who was meant to be running it has been away, so he’s just felt all alone. So, there are big differences between companies. What would you recommend, in the example I gave there, for someone who the induction has not been as promised when you get there? Any tips for people so they can make a start?

John: I would almost recommend to people that they work on the basis that induction training won’t be there. Because, if it is, that’s an added bonus. But, if it isn’t, you’ve kind of got your rescue kit ready. And to do that, really think about this as a kind of an exercise to say, “How would you do this entirely on your own?” Well, what you would probably do you’d have important check-in conversations with anybody that looks like a line manager or anybody that influences your role. You’d also check in with colleagues and team members to really understand how your job impacts on theirs and the problems that you’re there to solve, and you work out some of the other key people in the organization, the people I call blockers, and brokers, and enablers, and ambassadors. So, it’s those categories of people that really will make a big difference to whether you’d make some kind of a success in the opening couple of months.

James: Yeah, and you mentioned the information brokers, blockers, and enablers. We’ll delve into that in a bit of detail a bit later on in the interview. One thing I really liked from the book is you talk about how the self-promotion skills that graduate job seekers have been employing in their job search often aren’t appropriate and can be counter-productive when they actually get the job. Why do you think that is the case?

John: What you often hear from recruiters is the phrase, “How you look for a job influences the way you are seen when you start it.” So, if you are really over-promoting yourself, you’re over-selling your skills and your strengths, maybe you’ve got in too hard and you’re over-promising, and likely to under-deliver. And those are all things that are going to impact on your performance.

And if you think about it, the day before you start, what do people know about you? Well, the main thing they know about you is what’s going through the rumour mill as a result of the last interview you had in the organization. You may have had some kind of preliminary visit and somebody knows something about you from that. But, the first impression that you make as a result of the selection process is a really important one because it sets up all kinds of expectations.

The expectation might be that you’re lacking in confidence, the expectation might be that you’ve got too much confidence, you’re too cocky. It might be that a big concern that you have taught your way into the job, but you really don’t have enough knowledge of the organization to do well in it. So, it’s always good to think about, “Well, what messages have I got across in order to get this job? And now, what work do I need to do to reinvent myself as I arrive?”

James: I can remember we’ve had new graduates to join in the team, and they really come in and just try and almost —  again, give themselves a big sell, and I can remember just thinking, “Look, you don’t really need to do that. You’ve joined the firm. We trust that you’re good enough. It’s not an interview. You don’t have to try and sell yourself to me. Let’s just get on and do the job.” There is a definite switch in mind-set in terms of how they portray themselves and want to be seen.

John: That’s right.

James: And you talk as well about the importance of listening when you start a new job. Why is this so crucial in the beginning phase?

John: Well, it sounds really obvious, doesn’t it? But, it is, again, something which new hires often mix. Because, if you think about it, the expectation has been given to them. The expectation has been set that they’re going to hit the ground running. So, in other words, start delivering, start performing, start talking.

Now, the other way around is actually much more effective for a little while because what you’re doing is you’re absorbing culture, you’re working out where the danger areas are, you’re working out what the codes are in the organization in terms of the stuff you have to conform with, and you’re also working out whose toes you’re treading on. Because, there’s all kinds of danger areas in a new job.

So, the thing about listening is not just learning the job. It’s not just listening in order to absorb the task. It’s listening to absorb the environment, and the culture, and the politics, and the emotional dynamics of a team. One of the best ways of doing that is to ask great questions about what’s already working well.

And that really helps if people think that you see yourself as the kind of solution to all of life’s problems. If your approach is to say, “I’m really enjoying finding out more about these recent activities, these projects. In other words, picking up on what is already going really well,” that signals that you’re learning in a different way, and you’re learning as part of a joint contribution. You’re seeing yourself as a team member rather than as an outsider.

James: And I think that’s a really good point, and yeah, you can’t go wrong from just paying attention and asking good quality questions of people. It’s always a good way to impress people from the beginning. You do mention in the book, though, one exception is when you meet someone senior and you need to switch to interview mode again. How do you think this is the case with more senior people?

John: Well, because senior people make decisions about new hires really quickly. You might have met them in the hiring process, in which case they may have formed almost a cartoon picture on whether you’re a good thing or an average thing. But, the first time they see you in the work context, and that could be just talking to you in the lift, they’re again doing that rapid filtering process. I mean, there’s a lot of data that supports this. There’s the whole thing about the “set up to fail syndrome”.

There’s lots of research about the way senior managers make early decisions about new hires, and a senior manager might be second-guessing their own decision to hire you, or more likely, in the graduate context, just thinking about what the graduates or recruitment department, the hirers in the organization, are doing in the moment and are they bringing in good people.

So, just to say to somebody like that, “I’m absorbing, I’m learning, I’m listening,” is a little bit quiet, a little bit passive. It’s sometimes good to show some excitement about what you discovered, ask a great question, maybe, about the strategic-level decision-making, and talk about what you’re doing. Talk about what you’re already adding to the business.

James: I remember when I was a new graduate, someone gave me the advice that — because it was two intakes a year, so every six months, and they said, “Look for six months, the new graduates use this opportunity to ask any questions, make sure you’re speaking to people. You can go and introduce yourself to anybody because you’ve got carte blanche to do that at the beginning, and you can’t be doing it a year down the line. You can certainly be doing it in the first 100 days.”

John: Sorry to interrupt, but even in the first 100 days, you can’t come across as slightly too naive if the questions you ask are too basic. So, in other words, if you could have answered that question by spending 30 seconds looking at the company’s website, why are you wasting somebody’s time just picking up really basic information. So, these smart and positive-minded question tend to work much better.

James: You mentioned a moment ago about being too passive when you start. Can you expand on the difference between passive and active behaviours when you start a new job?

John: Well, it’s easy to be passive because work can look like an extension of full-time education where you are processed and you’re going to be moved along. And I’m sure, James, you and I meet a lot of graduates who really do expect that they’re going to be packaged and processed in that way, rather like organizations were doing 30 or 40 years ago. So, you’re going to be taken through an extended induction process and then put onto a learning and development plan, and maybe even in this time, the old-fashioned graduate training program, allowed to move around lots of different departments and to be settled down.

Well, modern working reality indicates that you’re hired in order to perform, and you’re expected to deliver something pretty much straight away. Clearly, you’re not going to have all the knowledge that’s required by the job, and your skills are still in development, but you’re going to be expected to do something, even if it’s work with application, and enthusiasm, and with energy, and diligently.

So, the passive thing is kind of waiting for something to happen to you. The active model is to say, “How can I start to make a difference and start to be visible from my very first week in the new role?”

James: Yeah and going back to the client I’ve been coaching who started his job two weeks ago. So, as of next week, so week 3, he’s already going to be — he’s got sales targets to hit. So, it’s quite a sales-focused role, so week 3 is expected to be hitting the ground running and being seen to be bringing cash to the company. Straight from the beginning, as you said, people want to see you making an impact.

John: Yeah, definitely.

James: We talked earlier briefly about the concept of brokers, blockers, and enablers. Can you explain what these are in more detail and why they are important?

John: Sure. So, brokers, to start with, are people that are — they’re brokers of information, and they’re not necessarily the senior people. It might be the managing directors PA, it might even be somebody in IT, or somebody in accounts, or somebody on security. But, what they do is they control access to information, and if they feel favourably disposed towards you, they share their information with you so they can give you shortcuts, they can tell you the right person to talk to, they can alert you to trips and traps, mechanisms that are going to get in your way, like what happens if you submit something a day late or you fail to preorder something.

So, that’s where brokers are really important. You often have to be really nice to them and to ask their advice, and sometimes flatter them a little bit. But, once they understand that you appreciate their help and you’re not going to constantly ask them stupid questions, they tend to be very, very helpful.

Blockers are very different because what they do, perhaps by instinct, is to block access to information, perhaps because of silo mentality or their working style. And it’s good to know who they are, because sometimes you might be depending on somebody to give you a piece of information. Let’s say you can’t complete a report without it, and it’s their normal working pattern not to do that on time and on target. So, when you discover people like that, sometimes you work on the relationship to get them to cooperate with you a little bit more, and sometimes you work around them and find a broker who will give you the same access to information.

Enablers are a bit like that, but what they’re actually doing is opening doors for you, as the word would suggest. They tend to introduce you to other people, to introduce you to projects, to feed you with information, and ideas, and resources. So, they become part of your learning, really, and it’s great to cultivate those people, even if they’re not formally mentors to you.

And one of the ways of doing that is sharing information with them. So, if you discover something interesting inside or outside the organization, and it’s, again, not too basic, a little bit useful, you think that would be of assistance, then passing it on means that, through the natural kind of process of fair exchange, you’ll get something back.

Ambassadors are really slightly more sophisticated kind of level, maybe for when you’ve been in an organization for 12 months or more where you’re possibly thinking about the mentor, you’re thinking about people who are going to be champions for you in the future, people who are going to not just open doors, but perhaps mention your name at a senior level. And this is one of the ways. When you talk to people who’ve got to board level in organizations, they would usually reflect back on the way that they have identified people who are information brokers, and enablers, and champions or ambassadors, people who actually have argued their case or promoted their visibility internally.

James: I love the four things there, and very true. I mean, I know the brokers are just so important, and in my experience, the PAs tend to be the real power brokers in most offices, and if you can get onside with some of the senior PAs, they can make everything just so much smoother for you. Of course, many of them tend to have been there a long time, they know who to speak to for everything. So, any questions you’ve got, they can really help.

And also, they just have the finger on the pulse, so they know things that are going on before you will. Also, as you said, if you can make friends with an IT person, they will be worth their weight in gold because you’re not going to be able to do much unless your computer and everything is working. So, if you can keep those people sweet, then that’s definitely going to help your career.

John: Absolutely.

James: And it wasn’t until I was probably a while into my first graduate job where I sort of realized the importance of ambassadors, and you definitely see in the firms people taking — there are sort of people who’ve worked with them as they progressed through their career, really pulling people along, as some people went up the ranks very quickly, the people that they trusted and they knew they could depend on working on projects. They’d just get pulled along with them, quick promotions. So, if you can identify the people who are going places nice and early, then it’s definitely going to help your career. I liked your point in the book about the importance of learning the local language of the new firm. How would you advise listeners to go about doing this?

John: In a way, it’s an extension of the process of getting hired, because strong candidates tend to learn to speak the language of the organization they’re going to. So, they learn to describe their strengths and their own experience and background in terms that the organization not only understands, but finds exciting.

When you’re in the role, it’s an extension of that, so you’re starting to pick up the terminology that’s used. And I’m not just talking in terms of jargon and technical stuff. I’m talking about the way organizations describe things like teamworking, and cooperation, and targets, and goals, and results, it’s a shared language, and usually in that language, it demonstrates that you’re starting to become one of the tribe. I think there’s a great deal that’s tribal about work, and tribes are very ancient parts of human history. We tend to behave differently towards people that we consider to be part of the same tribe, and slightly more negatively and more cautiously to people that we think are either in a different tribe or on the edge of the tribe.

So, if you held that model in mind and you think, “What do I need to do to become part of this tribe?” it’s not about conformity, and behaving, and wearing the same things as everybody else, but it is often about tuning in to language and behaviours as well. Not just language, but behaviours too. Say, for example, if you’re, as a relatively new member, coming in five minutes later than everybody else, as a tribal behaviour, that may be perfectly acceptable and everybody’s relaxed about that, but you may be pointing a big spotlight at yourself saying, “This is somebody that doesn’t get it, doesn’t understand.”

James: I really like the analogy of the tribe, and you mentioned about dress code and things. The last company I was working at, the dress code that 99% of all the men had was sort of chinos and shirt, no tie, no jacket, and it’s just uniform. Everybody just wore — if someone came in with a suit, you could immediately tell they were either very senior or they were more likely just to be a management consultant. So, yeah it’s important to get on top of what those are.

Expanding then from the tribe analogy, thinking about the culture of the firm, how important is it to get up to speed with the culture of a firm, particularly the hidden cultures. What should people be looking for?

John: Well, again, interestingly, culture is one of the things that really pays to find out about before you even accept a job, but it’s something you can’t always discover directly. So, I never recommend people say, at a job interview, “What is the organizational culture like?” because the answer you get comes from a public relations angle and not from a position of honesty. You can sometimes understand things about culture from the turnover of an organization and how long people have stayed there. When you arrive, if you discover that you’re working with people who have been around for five, seven years or more, and they’re still motivated and energized, and seem to be enjoying parts of their job, then the culture is probably working.

So, sometimes you pick up clues about how long people stay in the particular division or department, or within the organization as a whole. The operating culture is often also about understanding how organizations monitor and view success. So, that starts to feed into whatever an appraisal system looks like, how the organization chooses to progress some people and not others, and what’s going on behind that. So, there is a lot to decode, but the biggest clues are often to do with retention and how far people are motivated to do what they’re doing.

James: I hadn’t thought about it that way, and that’s a really good point. I’m thinking back to all the places I’ve worked, and as you mentioned how do people who’ve been there five, seven years, how motivated are they? And I can think of some workplaces I’ve been where people who are five, seven years in were certainly not motivated, which says a lot about the different workplaces. So, that’s a good way to look at it. Office politics is an unavoidable part of most jobs. What advice would you give a new graduate starting a company to navigate this minefield?

John: Well, I think you’ve got to tread very carefully, and to resist the temptation to mirror-copy negative behaviours, because that’s an easy form of acceptance. So, joining a faction, being difficult with somebody because other team members are difficult, being part of information-blocking, that’s a rather unwise and early form of connivance, really. It’s much better to spot the varieties of behaviours in office politics that you see, and where you find teams and managers who are much more positive, where the culture is more honest and healthier, then it’s sometimes a good idea to gravitate towards them, particularly if you find yourself in a slightly toxic environment.

It’s a poor assumption to think, “This immediate context is unhelpful, a little bit backbiting, so I need to just get out and find another job somewhere else,” because you do need to look very carefully to say, “Is this as a result of one individual manager, or one team, or one department? And there are organizations, it’s interesting to how there are a variety of contexts where office politics is more or less prevalent, and sometimes office politics is just simply an expression of competitiveness and it’s relatively acceptable, and sometimes it is destructive because it does actually get in the way of delivering things which move individuals in the organization forward.

James: Yeah, and looking back over my career, company to company, it just changed so much. In my most recent role, I was working with quite senior people, and there wasn’t any office politics at all. It was just everybody came in, did their job well, and went home, and there was just nothing, but then looking back thinking to other companies where it was just all pervasive, and it wasn’t a nice place to work. So, it really does change on a department-department, team-by-team basis, depending on who the —

John: It does, and I think an early understanding of that is very helpful because it can actually get in the way of an individual’s career. Because, if the net result of this is that teams are under-productive, or whole departments are seen as unhelpful, negative, and you can end up side-lined in a part of organization which has fairly low visibility and low impact. And that doesn’t provide great experiences to be putting into the first 10 years of your career.

James: No, completely. So, John there is so much good stuff in the book that we haven’t even touched upon, but unfortunately time is running away with us. This might be one final question. We’ve covered a lot so far in the interview, but maybe do you have one final top tip for graduates listening so they can hit the ground running in the first 100 days?

John: I would say take control of your own learning, really. Work out what really matters to the organization, where you think you can probably make a difference within three months, and what you need to learn quickly in order to do that. And that could be about shadowing somebody, picking up a new set of skills, it could be about doing some homework, it could be about go away and studying something privately. But, yeah take control of your own learning, and that’s likely to have a really big impact in terms of the way that you’re seen.

James: Brilliant. That’s brilliant advice. So, John let’s move onto the quick-fire part of the show. So, let’s start with one top book tip that you recommend to the listeners.

John: I’m going to recommend the book that I’m ordering today because I’m getting really interesting, this year, in the impact of artificial intelligence and automation in work. So, there’s a writer called Daniel Susskind. He’s an academic, and he’s just got a book out this month called “A World Without Work: Technology, Automation, and How We Should Respond.” So, I’m going to be dipping into that the next couple of days, and I think that’s the sort of book we should all be reading, really, to try to get a handle on how work is going to be changing over the next five years or so.

James: That sounds fascinating, and I know you touched on AI stuff and you think, “Oh, that’s not possibly going to impact my job,” but yeah, it’s going to touch on many, many jobs. So, listeners, definitely, if you’re thinking about your career over the next 40, 50 years, it’s going to play a big role. So, definitely worth maybe getting up-to-speed on it now. So, good recommendation there, John. So, next, what internet resource would you point listeners to?

John: Well, there are, of course, loads out there. But, again something that’s caught my attention this week are some really exciting blogs that have been put out very recently by an organization called Careershifters. So, careershifters.org, there’s some great blogs there, and what I like about the organization is that they are really good at encouraging people to be imaginative about career change, but also equally good at being action-focused in terms of the practical next steps that they need to do in order to make some kind of a change happen.

James: Brilliant. I’ve not come across that one, so I will check them out today. All the links to everything and a full transcript to today’s episode, you’ll be able to find in the show notes at GraduateJobPodcast.com/GetAhead. So, John it’s been an absolute pleasure having you back on the show. Where can listeners find out more about you and also more about the book?

John: The books are all covered alongside my work at www.JohnLeesCareers.com.

James: Excellent, and listeners, it’ll be heavily plugged with lots of nice big links to it over in the show notes, so check out the show notes there. John, thank you so much for coming on the show.

John: You’re very welcome. Thank you.

James: Many thanks as always to John for coming on the show, so much good advice for how you can ensure that you get off to a flyer when you start your graduate job. Make sure you check out the show notes at GraduateJobPodcast.com/GetAhead which has links to everything we discussed and a full transcript you can download. Make sure you subscribe to the show through which ever means you listen to the podcast, we have some cracking episodes coming up, including next weeks with psychometric testing website Job Test Prep who share exactly what you need to be doing to pass any psychometric test that you will face. It’s a cracker. If you have any questions, comments, or if you would like some on one coaching to help you with your graduate job applications, interviews or assessment centres, drop me a line at hello@graduatejobpodcast.com. I look forward to hearing from you. All that remains is to say I hope you enjoyed the episode today, but more importantly I hope you use it, and apply it. See you next week.