In episode 51 of the Graduate Job Podcast, I am joined by Amba Brown, author of the excellent ‘Finding Your Path, A Guide to Life and Happiness After School’. In this interview, we explore her book and the different pathways you can explore after university. We touch upon exploring the world, starting your career, continuing your career to finding your own way. We delve into why you should set your goals once you finish university, the importance of setting off to travel, and why you should always be working on your own personal project. If you’re feeling stuck at a career crossroads and not sure which way to go, or have recently graduated and feeling lost, then this is an episode you won’t want to miss. As always, all links to everything we discuss and a full transcript are available in the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/findingyourpath. Right, let’s not mess about, and jump straight to my chat Amba Brown.
MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:
- The different options and pathways to explore after finishing your degree
- Why thinking about smiling could be crucial to your career path post-university
- The importance of momentum once you have graduated
- Why a personal project could set you up for career success
- Inspirational ideas to get you thinking if you are stuck at a crossroads after university
- Why you should maybe think about grabbing a rucksack and setting off to see the world
SELECTED LINKS
- Check out the ‘How to Get a Graduate Job’ step-by-step online course at https://howtogetagraduatejob.com/
- Don’t even think about applying for graduate jobs until you’ve read my free guide, ‘The 5 steps you must take before applying for graduate jobs’. Click here NOW. It will completely change the way you apply for jobs!
- Would you like a free 30-minute video coaching call? Simply select a time that works here https://calendly.com/gradjob/ We can go over your CV, application, or anything that you are struggling with.
- Assessment Day – One of the top providers of psychometric tests. Click HERE and support the show
- Career Gym – Use code GJP to get 20% off all of their tests!
- Job Test Prep – One of the top providers of psychometric tests. Click HERE and support the show
- Amba’s brilliant book – Finding Your Path
Transcript – Episode 51 – Finding Your Path with Amba Brown
James: Welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, with your host James Curran. The Graduate Job Podcast is your weekly home for all things related to helping you on your journey to finding that amazing job. Each week I bring together the best minds in the industry, speaking to leading authors, entrepreneurs, coaches and bloggers who bring decades of experience into a byte size weekly 30 minute show. Put simply, this is the show I wish I had a decade ago when I graduated.
For episode 51 I have gone global again in my search to bring you the best careers advice, as I joined from Singapore by Australian Amba Brown author of the excellent ‘Finding Your Path, A Guide to Life and Happiness After School’. In this interview we explore her book and the different pathways you can explore after university. We touch upon exploring the world, starting your career, continuing your learning, through to finding your own way. We delve into why you should set your goals once you finish university, the importance of setting off to travel, and why you should always be working on your own personal project. If you’re feeling stuck at a career crossroads and not sure which way to go, or have recently graduated and feeling lost, then this is an episode you won’t want to miss. As always, all links to everything we discuss and a full transcript are available in the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/findingyourpath. Right, let’s not mess about, and jump straight to my chat Amba Brown.
James: I am very excited today to be speaking to Amba Brown, all the way from Singapore, author of the inspirational and absolutely beautiful book ‘Finding your path: a guide to life and happiness after school’. Amba, welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast
Amba: Thank you so much James. I’m excited to be here today.
James: And today we are going to dive into your book ‘Finding your path’ and explore some of the pathways listeners can take but before we start though, would you like to tell listeners a little bit more about your path, the path you’ve paved, and how you came to write this book.
Amba: Yeah sure, definitely. So the book started as a result of me finishing school and having no idea what I wanted to do. I was really anxious and had a lot of pressure on myself around what I was going to do after school. I remember at the time everyone saying ‘it doesn’t matter; you’ll work it out’ but I guess it really mattered to me. I was obviously just torn between all the options and I felt that there wasn’t a lot of support out there for me to make that decision. So initially I had a gap year and thought on that gap year I was going to work it out and come back after the year of travelling around Europe, I went up to America with a friend, have it all sorted but I returned with not much more clarity than I’d left, unfortunately. I then went in to do a degree, I did a broad degree where I majored in science and arts and also a language and during these studies I discovered how much I enjoyed studying psychology, so I then ended up taking more subjects and ended up majoring in psych. I then went on to major in positive psychology, so finishing uni I’ve worked in different jobs, all psychology based, I’ve worked as a private investigator for people with depression or anxiety in the workplace and I would go and meet with them and write reports for the insurance companies. Then after that I moved to Singapore, I was working with the Australian government in the consular team, so we were working with any Australians who were either hospitalized or arrested or in prison and I would go out and visit them and see how they dealt with stress which was really interesting. All along I came back to this idea of trying to work it out and find my own path and wanted to put together, with a positive psychology kind of spin, this notion of keeping momentum and keeping focused on what you’re interested in and I guess the benefits of that. Yeah, I was working on this book, so it came together over the last four years and I self-published it last year and it’s had a good response and here I am today.
James: Ah, brilliant and I have to say it’s such a beautiful book. So when I get books for the podcast or just generally to read, I’m a big scribbler in the side and always scribbling and writing notes and I had a real difficulty with this one as each page was so beautiful it felt almost like a crime to be scribbling notes on the side of it. So listeners check out my social media feed on graduate job podcast on Instagram, there’s some pictures on there, and also on Twitter and I’ll also be tweeting some pictures out of the book but make sure you check it out yourselves, it is beautifully made.
Amba: Thank you, thank you very much. It was actually designed by a graphic designer, from Sweden actually, and she did a beautiful job. Even for myself she took it to the next level and when I looked at it I was like ‘wow’ so I agree with you, she’s done a nice job.
James: She has. So, after university, the final year when you at university and you’re working towards your final exams and you get your results and you get your degree and you can chuck your mortarboard hat in the air and you can go home and there’s this dawning realisation of ‘what do I do next?’ and It can be a really scary, but equally exciting time. Especially when you keep on getting asked the question by family and friends, ‘what are you going to do next?’ So how can you begin to move on from this and think about what it is you’re going to do, in inverted commas?
Amba: Good question. So I think what I was mentioning earlier, the bottom line or the main focus of the book is really just to keep momentum and keep focused on what you’re interested in and I think we can’t undervalue our interests and what we enjoy doing in our downtime. So, I think focus on your interests and research as much as possible, as you said there are so many options out there but getting that information, online there’s different blogs and endless amounts of information on the internet and chatting to people who have done different jobs that you might be interested in, understanding their pathways as a source of information and just asking as many questions as you can. I think that with focusing on your interests, knowing your options and then I think I would just say, something that I would always live by is ‘fake it until you make it’, I think just jump in there and try and not let fear be in the way. I read a really good quote the other day by Mike Myers and it’s inspired me he said he’s still waiting for the no talent police to come and arrest him and it’s like ‘yes it’s not just me who feels like this’, just think that no one is born a pro and we are all beginners somewhere so really trust what you’re interested in and try and create that for yourself. I hope I didn’t overshare there, but…
James: Oh no, it’s always good to hear and after seeing some on Mike Myers’s films I think they might be on their way actually. The book covers jobs, it’s got the different pathways that you talk about, all different pathways like jobs, travel, learning, and going your own way, but what’s interesting is that you start with setting goals. Why do you think goal setting is so important for our listeners?
Amba: I think that with that confusion we can get a little lost and lack a bit of direction and whilst everything is fluid and things change I think that having goals to work towards when we might be getting a bit down with what we are doing can bring it back to what we are working towards. A quote used, Roy Disney’s quote used in the book when talking about the importance of values and when you know what your values are it helps you make a decision. So I really wanted to bring it back to that personal, personal development, knowing yourself and knowing what you want long-term, you know? I use the example in the book of being worldly, so if you’re looking to explore how can you get to do that and putting down measurable goals that you can clearly tick off and to continue to keep that momentum. So I just thought it was a good starting point to start to think about where you’re headed and to get people thinking about all the options.
James: I completely agree and it’s such an important part and it’s so easy to get onto the treadmill and stop going down one direction and almost forget why you started down that direction in the first place.
Amba: Exactly.
James: If you do set the goals initially when you can keep re-evaluating where you are going and making sure you’re going where you want to go and is it adding to what you want to do ultimately whether it’s getting on a graduate scheme or getting on a graduate scheme for a specific company or industry then you know you’re going in the right direction.
Amba: Exactly, exactly.
James: So the first pathway you talk about in the book is travel and it’s something you mentioned you did with a year out and based in Singapore and you’ve been working in America so it’s something that’s a big part of your life. You mention in the book that if you’re still tossing around with thought on taking this path, one thing is for sure, you won’t regret it. Why do you think this is the case with travel?
Amba: Yeah, I strongly believe that, I think as you mentioned it’s something I know from my own experience that I really valued and grown from and I think it’s not something you can learn in a classroom. There’s hardships of travel and amazing highs of travel and the memories you’re creating and when you’re sat back sitting in a rocking chair when you’re older you’re going to look back on the memories and it really shapes and defines us into who we are. Not to mention just seeing different cultures and people, it just opens up your world. I can’t recommend it highly enough.
James: I agree, I took a year out and went to Australia/
Amba: Did you?
James: /before uni. Yeah, so I spent seven months doing voluntary work in WA and then over in Victoria and took a year out after uni to go out to China so…it’s been part of my life and it’s been, as you said, you never meet anyone who says ‘I really regret going travelling’ it was the other way round, people going ‘ah, I wish I’d gone for longer’ or ‘wish I’d gone in the first place’.
Amba: Ah the travel bug.
James: Yeah, so how do people begin to narrow down the travel options, the world is a big place. Where do you recommend people starting off?
Amba: Yeah, I think ultimately looking at the purpose of why you want to travel. I think when I first finished school, like I mentioned, it was wanting a bit of time out, I didn’t know what I wanted to choose, I’d worked really hard in my final year, you know having a break and a bit of down time, exploring and so really understanding your purpose. For me it was exploring, but for other people it might be that they’ve always had a dream of surfing somewhere or they studied history they might want to go and see something they’ve always wanted to see so I think understanding your purpose. But also I guess there are certain situations you have to take into considerations, you know like how long you’ve got, what your budget is, so I think it’s going to be a very individual narrowing down process but I think if you can list those things down and start to work towards it, that should be a good starting point.
James: And of course you can always tie it in with work and do work abroad, so I went to China to teach English and was able to itch the travel bug there but also was able to get some great experience on my CV which gave me something to come back and talk about when I was going through the interview process so with teaching abroad you can learn a language somewhere, go to Spain and learn Spanish or Mexico or where it is you want to go. You can combine the travel with also the aim to improve your CV as you go along.
Amba: Definitely, I think it’s one of the great things that shows on your CV, that you’re worldly and that you’re someone who can adapt to different cultures or that you can leave your current environment, so yeah I think it says something about you as a person and as you said James, it can make you more employable in the future.
James: So what advice can you give someone who is possibly quite scared or daunted by setting off on a big trip?
Amba: I think, my nanna would always say to me ‘feel the fear and do it anyway’ and I think that’s something that I have lived by and I think it’s pretty normal to feel scared leaving your comforts that you’ve always known but I think that just take the leap. Like we said earlier, you won’t regret it.
James: Yes, to listeners who are maybe just finishing university, if you don’t go now when are you going to go? It’s only going to get harder down the line when you’ve got a mortgage and responsibilities and a proper job and people in tow, it gets more difficult.
Amba: Very true, very true.
James: For those about to set off travelling, have you got any top tips to make sure their trip is a success?
Amba: Yeah, so one of my top tips would be, I think finding moments to stop on the trip, you can find yourself rushing around and ticking off your schedule but I think the way I really look back on the moment where I soaked it up and I really enjoy documenting, you know taking pictures and writing a journal, I know so when I got home I kept journals of all my trips. In after my first year it was awesome to go back and read over them and think of stuff I’d completely forgot and so I think they’re good tips. I think also I wrote a note in the book to ensure you pack your passport and an open mind, and I think these are probably the two most important tips. When I was working in the embassy here, I really learn the value of a passport, (giggles), it’s more than just a piece of paper. The passport and open mind so you can meet people and it really makes a big difference on the outlook of your adventure.
James: So that’s top tips, and the passport, that is definitely worth remembering.
Amba: Definitely.
James: So moving onto the second pathway of the book which is ‘keep learning’, in your opinion what are some of the right and wrong reasons for going into postgraduate study?
Amba: This again is quite individualistic, but basically for someone considering it, there’s going to be people who know what they want to do, they know that to get a job you have to, to go to uni or you have to be on a certain course to get and obviously go for it, I guess that’s a no-brainer. But then there’s the people, I guess like me, who knew they wanted to go on and learn something but I wasn’t actually sure what it was and I’d encourage those people, if you’re up for it and you like learning, if you’re open to finding your path along in the adventure, I’d also encourage those people perhaps, like I did, to do a broad degree. But I know there’s certain people who will at least finish their studies up and then just move on, you know they’re out. I wouldn’t say it was a blanket answer and everyone should do it but there are definitely some awesome, awesome benefits to finishing it again I touch on this in the book but statistics say you’re more employable, you make higher salaries, obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone, it’s statistically speaking but yeah I just think it’s a great experience and similar to travelling there’s more kinds of benefits like meeting people and opening up your mind so I think it’s a very valuable thing to have on your path.
James: Yes and as you mentioned it’s making sure you’re doing it for the right reasons, you know that you love the subject or you really want to take your knowledge further or it’s going to be critical for whichever career you’re going down but I do come across some of the clients I coach, who almost feel drawn to it as they haven’t got the jobs that they wanted and they don’t really know what else to do or parents are pushing them down the further study route but from personal experience from when I was recruiting if I’ve got a candidate who has a years’ work of experience or a master’s degree then I’d probably always go for the years’ work experience just because it’s more practical.
Amba: Exactly.
James: Make sure you’re doing it for the right reasons. You also mentioned about studying abroad were you can get the benefits of travel as well as being able to improve your learning and get a degree somewhere else, which would probably be a lot cheaper than it would be at the moment in the UK or maybe America than if you went somewhere else in Asia. So how can, thinking more about further study, what are some of the ways people can make sure that they make the most of their time studying further?
Amba: I think just throwing yourself into it and, as you mentioned, doing what you enjoy, I know from my own studies when I was doing the different broad courses that I was applying myself a lot more to the subjects I was interested in and there’s the reality that there’s always going to be parts of it that you don’t enjoy, like when I was majoring in psychology I was loving all the cases on people and the cases and then the statistics side, I was kind of dragging my heels a little bit more, but I think that comes back to the values that we were referring to earlier and knowing why you’re doing it. I don’t know about yourself but when I was in uni there was this big mentality of ‘p’s’ get degrees’ and I would discourage people from implementing this; that idea that you can just get through and pass and that kind of thing to get the most out of it you really need to be, you know it’s costly, you’re there and if you’re throwing yourself in and learning as much as you can, you’re going to take away a lot more.
James: I’ve never…
Amba: Have you not heard of that?
James: No, what does that mean?
Amba: A ‘P’ is a pass, so obviously if you pass you’re going to get your degree and there was this real mentality, when I was at uni, that everyone around would be like ‘oh, you know it doesn’t matter’, a load of people just hanging around…but no, I don’t encourage it, you’re not going to get the most out of it if that’s your approach.
James: Ah yes that’s true and it’s a new one on me. You talked yourself about learning as you went through the course and where/what really caught your interests and it’s that thought of being flexible and going in with an open mind and seeing what things really excite you and take your interests that you can take down and study further and go down different routes and be open to the things you’ll come across.
Amba: Yes, exactly, nothing is going to be the same way forever and I think being able to have that as a skill and being able to reassess where you’re at is really something you should keep up your sleeve and can help you on your path…keep going up the path.
James: Yes, I love the quote that you have in the book ‘whatever you decide to do, make the thought of it make you smile’, I think that’s a really good listeners test for if you are signing up for a degree or postgraduate study and the thought of it isn’t exciting and doesn’t make you happy then you might want to reassess if this is the right thing you should be doing.
Amba: Yeah, and that really comes back to having those moments were you really understand why you’re doing something and I think that sometimes we can be skewed by other people’s opinions on things and I remember chatting with an Aunty and she had done some psychology and she was like ‘I don’t know, it’s not like it is in the movies, it’s not the big office and fancy chairs’ and I was like ‘ugh!’ and she completely threw me off it but the more I went into it I began to realise that that was her experience but for me I actually really liked being able to help people and I found that really interesting being with different people. So, I think take on other people’s experiences but try to create your own. But yeah, like I said, what makes you smile.
James: That’s the most important thing. So moving on to the third pathway which is career and one which I think most post university people are instinctively drawn towards without really putting the right thought into if this is the right time for them to go into a career. Now, I’ve got lots of favourite quotes from the book but one of my favourite favourite quotes is ‘nothing beats getting paid to do what you love but nothing is more frustrating than hearing this statement when you haven’t yet figured it out’. So massive question but how can listeners begin to find that job that they love?
Amba: Yeah, no, massive question but this is a quote that I kind of thought about for a while in that you hear that a lot ‘you know it’s so great doing what you love’ but like I said how do we find this out? I think that…I think it’s a matter of trial and error. You know there’s no kind of quick answer to that unfortunately but again being aware of what you want to do in your downtime and try and implement that when you can. I think that if I look back on my jobs that I’ve had in the past and tried to think…I don’t think there is any such thing as a perfect job but I think there is a job that is best suited to some people. So it’s really being aware of what you like about your current job and what you don’t like and in your next job eliminating the parts that you don’t like as much as you can and keeping the parts that you do. So, when I finished uni all I wanted to do was work for a big company, you know that was reputable and that was it, that was all I put out for and that was awesome until I was there for a few years and was like actually I want to work with, on a team of people who were interesting and like-minded, do you know what I mean? So narrowing that down through that trial and error process and maybe an element of patience in that we won’t always get that dream job straight out of uni but all skills can be transferable and all be applicable to our next job. So, not undervaluing any one job and maybe there’s more parts that you don’t like and as I said in the next one you’ll reduce those but yeah, I think just keeping that self-awareness.
James: Ah yes that’s brilliant advice and I really agree with the trial and error, it’s a great way for, to go through that trial and error process and to gain work experience is such a powerful thing without spending too long getting you into the company and learning what it really entails. I mean, you read these glossy brochures about these big companies and you think ‘this sounds really cool’ but life isn’t always as it is described in these brochures and so it’s only when you actually get there and speak to people and have those conversations that you find out for yourself what the job really entails and what it’s going to, whether it’s going to excite you and keep you interested as you spend a couple of years doing it.
Amba: I agree and I think at uni a lot of it can be theory based, so being able to get that experience on the side, whilst it’s also good for your CV, yeah, it can be good to see if the reality of it is what you think it is and like you said, if a position comes up and you have built that reputation with them and then hopefully they’ll consider you for the position, if you’re interested in it.
James: And going back to what we talked about earlier and having the open mind. I was very similar, so post…when I started looking for work, my criteria was it needed to be a big company with a defined graduate scheme where I could start and I wanted it to be two years in length so I could go through it. I much had blinkers on for what exactly what starting position I wanted to take was, I could have been more open to different options that were on the table with smaller companies where I could have learnt in a different way and could have got more experience, maybe quicker, but for me I had chosen the specific path and had gone straight for that one. A lot of people I coach have this fear that they’ll always get the wrong job and it won’t be perfect so they keep on searching for this perfect job and don’t move forward. What advice would you give people who find themselves in that situation?
Amba: Yes, I think that comes back to that pressure we put on ourselves. I think that, oh, another hard question, I think that what I was mentioning before that I don’t think there is a perfect job so something that is just best suited for you. I think, again, keeping open that things will change, you’ll change; one year you might like something, five years later your values and interests may change, so I think trying to ease that pressure if possible. I think striving and being a high achiever is a very valuable skill set to have and great, I think being ambitious but I think trying to eliminate that wrong job idea. Well I think, if you’ve made a decision to go into a job, whatever reasons you’ve made that decision at that time and if you can get as much out of it that you possibly can, like I was mentioning earlier that you know, skills can be transferable, trying to focus on how you can take that to your next job and like you were saying about committing to it for, your job for a couple of years, I think that it shows commitment and you can see a job out. I think giving a job a certain amount of time at least, at least six months, I think that they first year in any job can be challenging and there’s a lot to learn and perhaps the second year it won’t be as difficult. There may be other elements to move into other aspects of the job, you can discuss that with your manager, so yeah, I think keeping open communication around why this job that you’re in is wrong it can help you find that, a job that is better in the end.
James: I know you mentioned earlier that as long as you’re moving forward then you’re going to moving in the right general direction.
Amba: Exactly, exactly. So just trying to lift a bit of that pressure that we put on ourselves that every decision has to be perfect and forever, I think that’s a false perception of how it is.
James: And liberates you to just go and do things that excite you, that you might not want to do because you know that you can just, you can afford to make mistakes as long as you’re doing something.
Amba: Exactly, keeping that momentum, keeping moving forward and definitely, there’s going to be jobs that we all fall into that we go ‘ugh this isn’t forever’ and that’s fine too. It comes back to that trial and error and at least you’ve tried it and it’s wrong, you know a process of elimination next time you won’t do that one. So, I guess it’s a good thing, one less job to worry about considering.
James: So moving on then, to the fourth and final pathway of the book, tell me, is ‘finding your own way, what else is there’ and one of the things that really struck me was, you talk about finding a personal project maybe because this podcast for me, is my personal project. What did you mean by project and why is it important to have one?
Amba: I think that having our own project or thing on the side keeps us interesting, filling our time with things we enjoy doing is the fundamental building blocks to our happiness, so this can be you know, I call it a project but it could be a hobby, something that you enjoy doing, it can be a whole variety of different things but just having something on the side can be useful for a variety of reasons; you know, meeting people, learning a new skill. Yeah, you never know where it will end up I guess, could end up being your next business, or your own small business or it could just be something were you find a group of friends or make different friendships, so I think that it can open up different doors is what I’m saying.
James: It’s also a lot more interesting when you go to a party and people ask ‘what do you do?’ and you just can just drop in that, your personal project makes you sound more interesting.
Amba: It does, and I love chatting with people who have other things on the go. I find it inspiring. So it’s another thing I recommend.
James: Another thing you talk about in this final pathway is the benefits of charity work, how can it help you to find your path, doing some charity work?
Amba: I think that working with people and giving your time to something bigger than yourself can be really rewarding, it’s also another one of them building blocks to happiness. I have always found that, I’ve found it to be fulfilling and I think that if you can think about what you want to spend your time doing, again that’s going to be another clue to perhaps your career or where you want to be spending the majority of your time. Recently I was living in San Francisco for a few months and I’m not sure if you’ve been there but there are a lot of homeless people and I found it quite upsetting and confronting at first, so I did some volunteering at a homeless shelter there and it was really interesting. The experience of getting to be inside the shelter and I found it really rewarding being able to give back, even a small amount but I think that it’s important when we can, you know I know we don’t all have a lot of time but I think it can give us perspective and to show again it can be an interesting point to conversation at parties and you don’t do it for that, but it does keep you interesting and worldly and caring more about just yourself.
James: I can imagine that must have been very interesting. So I was in San Fran actually November last year, yeah it’s a beautiful city but compared to say London, the homeless people tend to be quite quiet, you know sleeping in doorways or begging but in San Francisco it can be very in your face so it would have been interesting work there.
Amba: It is, isn’t it, and I guess that it’s such a contrast as well as all the tech start-ups are there and there is that really contrast between the wealthy and the poor and people just become so used to it I guess. People are just walking down the street and I know that’s the reality of a lot of cities but yeah for me coming from living in Singapore it was a big change.
James: You also talk in the book about getting side-tracked, how do you know that you’re getting side-tracked, as opposed to just getting distracted? Maybe if you tell us what you mean by getting side-tracked
Amba: Yeah, I think side-tracked is something I refer to when I mean an intention to get off the path or your normal path that you’re walking, you know we can get caught up in doing our everyday job and friends and all of those things that are everyday things that we do but I think if you have the intention to get side-tracked you, were you are wanting to do something off that path, so putting yourself out there, trying something you wouldn’t usually do, putting down your phone or…I think it just gives a bit of variety in life and again coming back to that remembering our interests and it’s the same underlying message but I think that you’ll never know where you’ll find yourself with the intention to get side-tracked.
James: And again, going back to the personal projects you never know where it’s going to lead or where it’s going to take you. I liked how, you also talked in the book about the need for people to talk through their post-university plans with people, why is it important for people to talk about it rather than just keeping it bottled up in themselves?
Amba: Yeah, I think talking about things makes them become a reality, you know I’ve always used this trick to keep myself accountable when I starting writing this book, I was like ‘yeah writing a book’ meanwhile I was sitting there staring at a screen and then people start asking, you know ‘how’s the book?’ and I’m like ‘hmm!’ So I think that if you put it out there, one you make it your reality through talking through it. Yeah, I think if you can verbalise it, you must, then you can do it.
James: And linked to the next question I had, you also talked about thinking big. At what stage, from your personal experience, you know you said you were going to write a book, there must have been something big to say, you know ‘I’m just going to write a book’. How did you come to that decision yourself?
Amba: Yeah, I think there is always that element of fear that creeps in and self-doubt, ‘I can’t write a book, I’m not an author, I’m a psychologist’, there’s these kinds of fears that will creep in, but I think just trying to believe that, I think thinking big just ties onto that dream and that hope and there is definitely moment were I just wanted to crawl under the sheets and be like ‘No I’m not doing that, I take it all back’. But I think that keeping that believe is what spurred me on and the support of people around me as well. So I think it’s really important, as well to not live in ourselves or how other people might expect or let that fear override the dream so I encourage everyone to think as big as they can and believe.
James: As you’ve just mentioned there though, you do hit that dip whether it’s job searching, you get turned down from a job that would have been perfect for you or you fail at the assessment centre and you go through the dip…there’s the good times and then there’s the times when you go ‘ugh’ and you find so difficult. I loved the quote you have at the end with ‘your dream doesn’t have an expiration date, take a deep breath and try again’. For people going through the dip at the moment, how would you encourage them, what advice would you give them?
Amba: I have definitely been in the dip and it can be hard to find that inspiration when you’re feeling down and you have got those rejections. I had a lot of publishers, you know saying no but you have to come back to that belief but you know coming back to answers, look to people for inspiration. I refer in the book to a variety of different people who were put down and the example I gave; Michael Jordon, Albert Einstein, all of these, Doctor Seuss, big names that now we look at and they’re influential and you watch the Steve Jobs documentary and I think keeping that momentum by others that have gone through it and reaching out and talking about it with people, I definitely recommend, just being honest about it. I definitely had those moments were I would just say to friends or my partner ‘why am I doing this? I’m a fraud, I shouldn’t be doing it’ but they can help pull you in line and keep you focused and whatever it is when you feel on the verge of giving up coming back to the goals we started the podcast discussing and values and continue on with that momentum.
James: Wow, you’ve linked that all nicely together.
Amba: (giggles) I didn’t even plan that.
James: As we mentioned though, as talked about in the beginning if you do have those goals, and you do have them up somewhere and you know what you’re ultimately aiming and reaching for, it’s something that will just drag you through the difficult times when you think ‘what is this all for?’ If you know what your ultimate aim is, then it will help you to get there.
Amba: Exactly.
James: So unfortunately Amba, time is running away with us but one final question. So we have talked about the four pathways; travel, work, career and finding your own path, what final advice would you give to someone who thinks they all sound good but doesn’t know which one to go for?
Amba: Are you asking me to pick one? (giggles)
James: No, no. To help people to pick one so they can decide for themselves.
Amba: I think that, ohh this is the biggest question, I think that they all kind of refer back to the three tips I referred back to earlier and that’s what I always bring it back to. Now that I have written this book on what to do after high school and I have had so many people come up to me and be like you know, ‘so what should I do?’ I wish had some magic wand were I’m like ‘oh you should do this’ and send people on their way but unfortunately we don’t and we all have to go through this journey and work it out for ourselves but I think back to the three main points of just focussing on your interests, knowing your choices and go out and ‘fake it till you make it’.
James: That’s great advice. Amba thank you, thank you. So moving on now to the weekly staple questions were I ask each guest three questions. So Amba, question number one; what book do you recommend that listeners should read?
Amba: I think recently, I’ve finished, I’m not sure if you’ve read it Elizabeth Gilbert’s ‘Big Magic’.
James: Oh I’ve not heard of that one.
Amba: You’ve not heard of it? I loved it, I think that it was probably where I was at so it resonated with me, but she writes books about this idea of…ideas coming to us and in a similar light and underlying principle of what we’ve discussed today about interests and momentum and really just putting your work out there and nothing is going to be perfect and I think for me, I could literally still be writing this book, re-wording sentences but she talks about just throwing things out there and yeah believing. It’s a very inspiring read so for anyone that has got an idea, it doesn’t have to be writing, it could be anything, their own personal subject, I recommend it as a motivational book to get you out there and put it out. Be a doer.
James: That sounds like one that would be really useful for me with the podcasts, I will definitely check that out and what was it ‘Big Magic’?
Amba: Big Magic
James: Big magic? Excellent. And I will link to that in the show notes so that you can find links to everything we’ve discussed today and a full transcript at graduuatepodcast.com/findingyourpath…a nice long URL there but do check it out. Next question Amba, what website would you recommend our listeners use?
Amba: I think an internet website that I use every day, I don’t know if you use this, but its ‘Momentum’. It’s an app on crome and I have downloaded it and every day it pops up with a pretty image and a quote and it just says ‘what’s your main focus of the day?’ so you write down your main focus and then there is a to-do list, so I can, I’m a list maker so I put down my lists of things, it helps to inspire me and gets me spurred on for that day. That’s something I’d use every morning.
James: Brilliant, that’s a new one for me and it sounds like it would be a brilliant one for anyone listening who is apply for jobs and just needs that focus to make sure that they’re, that they get on and do things during the day so I will definitely check that out and get that downloaded. And finally Amba, what one tip can listeners implement today to help on their job search?
Amba: I think that something they could do today would probably be to list down what you want, tying back that dream job we were talking about earlier or the most perfect job for them, writing down a list of things they want from their job. You know what things they enjoy about their currently job; maybe three to five things and then perhaps three to five things that they don’t like. So, if you’re looking for your next job, or very first job I think really honing in on what you’re looking for and putting it out there. So that you can start talking about it and working towards it and it just helps to narrow down that search a little bit, a little bit finer.
James: Excellent, I like that and definitely one listeners you should put into practise today. Amba thank you so much for appearing on the Graduate Job Podcast, what’s the best way for people to get in touch with you and the work that you do?
Amba: Thank you James. So probably just through the website findingyourpathbooks.com all the information is there and there is a contact link for us. Also on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, so linking up with Finding Your Path on any of those social media platforms and I’d love to hear from you. If you have any feedback or questions, I always love hearing from listeners and readers. So thank you so much for your time and it’s been really fun chatting.
James: Ah no, no, thank you and listeners as I’ve talked about all throughout the book, it is a beautiful book so do get your hands on it. You will be impressed, it’s definitely definitely worth a read. Amba thank you so much for appearing on the Graduate Job Podcast.
Amba: Thank you James, see you later.
James: Many thanks to Amba for her time today, do check out her book Finding Your Path, I guarantee it will be the prettiest book on your bookshelf. A few things stood out and stuck with for me from our chat today. Having listened to those four pathways you might still be at a loss of what to do, in that case, follow the quote about smiling, which of them will make you smile. Go with that one, if you’re happy, you probable won’t be going to far wrong. The second and third points tie in closely to each other. The second is momentum, always try and keep moving forward with what it is that you want to do. Despite setbacks on the way, as long as you keep trying and moving forward you will get there. Which leads us on to one of the many excellent quotes form the book. ‘Your dream doesn’t have an expiration date, take a deep breath and try again’. Your dreams don’t run out, so keep the momentum, and no matter what the pathway you’re get there in the end.
On that positive note I’ll leave you with a final request from me, if this episode or any of the other 50 have been useful to you, you can thank me in 2 ways, one is to do my super quick survey at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/survey, and the other is to leave me a review on itunes. Apple put lots of weight to itunes reviews and it keeps me high in the charts, so please fire up itunes and leave me a review I will love you forever. One review to leave you with from Itunes from SanjeevB in the US who said, ‘Getting so much value from these, Thanks James , keep it up’. Many thanks Sanjeev, really appreciate you taking the time to leave me a message. So there we go, all that’s left to say is do join me next week when we have a bit of a recap of some of my favourite bits over the last 51 episodes. I hope you enjoyed today, but more importantly, I hope you use it, and apply it. See you next week.