Episode 18 – How to Get a Graduate Job at EY

May 12, 2015 Podcast

Welcome to the 18th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast.

This episode I speak with Brian Sinclair, Graduate Recruitment Manager at EY, as we cover all things related to bagging a graduate job or internship at EY. Brian has decades of graduate recruitment experience and shares exactly what you can expect in the recruitment process, and what you need to do to stand out from the crowd. If you’ve ever thought about applying for a graduate job or internship at EY or any professional services company then this is the episode for you.

You can download the podcast to your computer or listen to it here on the blog. Additionally, you can subscribe via iTunes, Stitcher Radio or Spotify.

MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:

  • Why you need to focus on your strengths when applying to EY
  • What you can expect from each stage of the recruitment process at EY, from the online application through to the assessment centre
  • The secret for how to impress in a partner interview
  • Top tips for passing the online application
  • The importance of applying for an internship at EY
  • Exactly what makes an application which stands out
  • A top tip for transforming the STAR methodology so that the interviewer takes notice

SELECTED LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Transcript – Episode 18 – How to Get a Graduate Job at EY

James:   Welcome back everyone to the Graduate Job Podcast, with your host James Curran. The Graduate Job Podcast is your weekly home for all things related to helping you on your journey to finding that amazing job. Each week I bring together the best minds in the industry, speaking to leading authors, entrepreneurs, coaches and bloggers who bring decades of experience into a byte size weekly 30 minute show. Put simply, this is the show I wish I had a decade ago when I graduated.

This week I speak with Brian Sinclair, Graduate Recruitment Manager at EY. Brian is a seasoned graduate recruitment specialist and today we gain a fascinating insight into the other side of the recruiting process, as we explore exactly what it takes to get a job with one of the UKs top graduate employers. We delve into all aspects of the graduate recruitment process at EY, from how to stand out in the initial online application, through to how to impress at the partner interview. If you have ever thought about applying to EY, or any of the professional services firms, then this episode is for you. As always, all links we discuss and a full transcript are available in the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/EY but without further ado, let’s jump straight in with episode 18.

James:  Hello, and welcome to the 18th edition of the Graduate Job Podcast. I’m excited today to have Brian Sinclair on the show.   Brian is a student recruitment manager at EY and has over 10 years experience working specifically in graduate recruitment for a host of huge companies such as BT, Capgemini and Accenture.

Brian, a very warm welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast.

Brian:  Thanks for having me on, James.

James: So, I’ve given our listeners a brief introduction but before we start, would you like to introduce yourself properly and tell us a little bit more about what it is you do as a Student Recruitment Manager at EY?

Brian: Okay. So, as you mentioned, I’m Brian Sinclair. I’m currently a Student Recruitment Manager looking after campus recruitment at Ernst and Young, now EY.   What that entails is really looking at what universities do we go to, what universities do we work with, what universities do we engage and attend to attract the brightest and best students to come work for EY either on a summer internship, industrial replacement or as a graduate. And we also have a number of programs that first years can get involved in. And so Leadership Academy, Discovery EY and we also have Insight days. So, we have a number of things we offer to students just to help us engage and attract and really work with them to let them know who we are, what we do and help them decide, hopefully, that EY is a great place for them to start and have a, and continue to have a great career after graduation.

James: And today we’re going to delve into the graduate recruitment process at EY and get an invaluable view from across the other side of the desk. I’m sure many people will have heard of Ernst and Young, EY, but for others it’s probably one of those companies that they’ve heard of but they’re not actually sure what it is that they do as a professional services company. Could you shed some insight, Brian, into what a professional services company is?

Brian:  We work very hard for our clients, to put it briefly. So, we offer a lot of services to a number of clients, a lot of large global clients who we are quite familiar with. In essence, what we do is a number of key services. So, we’re aligned to our service line. So, one of the main ones is Assurance, where we go in and we audit company’s accounts and books and procedures and processes so that we can help them produce their annual report that goes out to shareholders and stakeholders. So, it’s EY’s responsibility to make sure that’s correct and accurate. So when we’re reporting profits and how well the company is done, we’ve gone through the right checks and procedures to make sure that that is something that everyone can believe, basically. So, that’s what the Assurance guys do.

In Tax we look at personal tax for people of high wealth and high wealth individuals. We look at some corporate clients and we just really make sure that the people are paying the right and fair amount of tax in accordance with the local laws. So, we’re not about helping people dodge taxes, someone would claim in the latest press. It’s really about making sure the right tax laws are applied correctly and fairly across all people involved. And it’s not just UK. We deal with people who move internationally. So, we have a very complex large international tax area which is a very exciting place to work. People think of taxes being quite dull and boring. But no, it’s actually one of the most exciting places in EY to work.

We also have our Advisory service line which is where provide, you know, advice to our clients and raise problems and issues and things that they’re going through. It’s probably akin to your consultancy type work and it’s more or less that.   We refer to it as advisory within EY. It’s our big thought practice, thought leadership, where we help companies and client we work with to succeed in the marketplace they’re operating in.

And I also have our fourth service line which is Corporate Finance, and that’s dealing with the large scale mergers and acquisitions and more kind of strategic moves like that. Most of the areas require our students to be fully qualified in, you know, accounting qualifications; so the Institute of Chartered Accountants for Scotland or the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales or ICAS or ICAEW for short. So a lot of our students would come in and get training and that sort of enables, you know, look at the various books and transactions and activities that we do to help serve our clients.   Professional services is really about, we provide services to the clients to help them operate more effectively and efficiently in their marketplace.

James: Four huge areas there. So, we’re recording this at the beginning of May. I’m guessing you’re winding down for the 2014/15 portion of the recruitment process. I mean, how many spaces did you recruit for over this period of last year and how many applications did you get for all those places?

Brian: In an average year, we look at between 20 and 25,000 completed applications. There will be an untold number of students who start and for whatever reason don’t finish but we count the completed applications, and that’s 20 to 25,000 a year. For that we hire a range of people. We have, you know, our graduate number is increasing year and year.   We’re looking at under a thousand graduates for FY15, FY16 even further potentially. We hire about 300 summer interns and about 100 of industrial placement students and then we have a large school leaver program as well, which is 100 odd incidentally. And then we have people coming on to our Leadership Academy. There’s probably 25 to 30 for the Leadership Academy; similar for the Discover EY program. And Insight days; we run quite a few of those at different office around the UK and we hire about 25 each per Insight day. So, all told, it adds up to over 1,500 hires per year, but some are permanent hires coming in grad programs and some come in just for shorter period of times, for a couple of days, for the Insight days. One day, for the Insight day, two days for the Leadership Academy and Discover EY and then six weeks for the summer internship program and then 12 month industrial placement. So, quite a range of hires for a range of different programs. So, quite a lot goes on in EY in the student recruitment team.

James:   Yeah, I can imagine. Twenty-five thousand completed applications is a lot of application forms to be reading through.   So, if we start with the graduate application and then I’m interested in learning about the Leadership Academy and the Insight days, starting with the graduate application process, what does the process look like? I saw on your website that, you start with, you have to do a strengths, online Strength Assessment, is one of the first stages. What does that look like?

Brian:  The strength selection process overall is something that EY uses to assess candidates. Strengths is really about the natural skills and innate abilities that the candidate has. It’s kind of defined as, not just what you can do but what you can do and love to do. Compared to competency based interviews, or competency or behaviour based, it’s asking candidates to give you an example where you’ve demonstrated a particular skill, you know, on campus or in some part time work experience, or some prior kind of placement experience and they have to kind of fit it in to what would be their competencies. It’s hard because students that wouldn’t have normally a lot of experience, it’s hard to assess them against professional skills and expect them to have a relevant example that fits directly into it.   And competency interviews tend to ask for candidates to give a little story with the key kind of buzzwords in there that the interviewer listens for and ticks off. On the student level it’s not really, we believe, a really strong indicator of the candidate’s actual potential or the future ability. Where assessing candidates based on strengths. It’s is looking at them and talking to them about what they do, what they like to do, what are they naturally good at, what they are genuinely interested in and enthused by and we’ll see that in the interview as you speak to the candidate and see them at the assessment centres. It’s about seeing energized and are excited by doing certain things. The strengths we have at EY in the selection process are aligned to what you should actually be doing and the strengths you’re going to be using in the role. So, naturally, if you perform well in the selection process demonstrating these strengths, then you will not only be able to do the job, you’ll actually enjoy it. You’ll really like what you’re doing because you’re finding it’s something you can actually do and can perform well in and grow into. So, there’s less stress for you as an individual. You don’t feel so stretched. You enjoy coming to work on a Monday morning which is unusual but it’s what we’re aiming for. It’s what the strengths process is designed to do.   We find it to be quite effective in EY anyway and the way we apply strengths to the selection process it is end to end it is throughout.

So, candidates will start off an application by completing an online application, pretty standard fare these days. It’s just about yourself; a little about your background experience and obviously your academic that you’re predicted or achieved. When you complete the application form itself, the second part of the initial, what we call the complete application, is to just do the situational strengths test online and that describes various scenarios and you’re asked to pick what would be your preferred course of action, or choice of things to do having read the scenario and we will score all that together, and if you meet our minimum pass mark or benchmark, then we’ll invite you to then complete an online test. The test is actually a combination of three areas: it’s verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning and diagrammatical reasoning, all to gauge your general abilities in these areas. Diagrammatical reasoning is really there to test your logical thinking skills which is required in a lot of the roles we have here in EY. If you complete and successfully reach a benchmark and pass mark in the psychometric test, then you’re invited in for a first round interview. At the moment the first round interviews are currently held in our offices. You come in and you meet a manager or senior manager from the part of the business you’ve actually applied to. So, it’s not any manager meeting any candidate. It is aligned to the area of EY which you wish to join. So, you’re meeting a potential future colleague as part of the selection process. You get to come in, meet him or her, go through the strengths based interview and you know, see round the office as well in most cases. The strength based interview is pretty quick fire. It’s covers off a number of strengths during the interview. Candidates do find that we get a lot of feedback that it feels more natural in how they describe themselves and their abilities a lot better and it isn’t as tense or as onerous as some competency based interviews, they’ve told us about. So, we find it’s a good candidate experience as well but it’s also quite effective. The interviewer can make a very clear decision at the end of the interview whether the candidate has what we’re looking for or not, as the case may be. And if they do, they are successful, then they get progressed through to one of our assessments centres, which again, are held at the local office ideally for the candidate, where they ultimately could be working. And the assessment centre tells us, to put it in a simple way, all we’re asking for you to do at the assessment centre is to really repeat what you already did or do what you said you can do at the earlier stage of the selection process. So it’s really a validation exercise. So you come in and you’re put to a number of exercises, the three main exercises are, you do a team exercise where it’s just like a group discussion exercise. You all get a brief to read and then you have to, between you all, discuss the brief and decide on an outcome at the end of it.   So questions from the assessors and then that’s it you move on to the next exercise. You’ll then do a written exercise where you get a brief, some instructions, you read the instructions and you type out a brief response to the question, to the summary given. That’s assessed as well. And then you re-sit some of the tests you had done online just making sure for consistency in scoring, to make sure that it wasn’t a fluke online, basically. So, we get candidates to do that as well.

I will say as well, just to be fair, and candidates do have a disability or an extra need, we do encourage you to absolutely tell us that. Don’t hide it. Don’t pretend you don’t have one. We will not rule you out of the application for that. What we’ll do is we’ll try to make your candidate experience as comfortable as possible. We will make any reasonable adjustments required so you have just as fair a chance to proof your actual abilities and that you’re just as good as anybody else to get the job. So, we do find a lot of candidates try to pretend they don’t have any and tells us at the last minute after the assessment centre. We’d like to make as fair assessment as possible. So, do tell us upfront if you can. We wouldn’t hold it against you at all.

And the final part of our assessment centre is an interview with one of our partners. He or she will sit down with you for a good 45 minutes to an hour and talk to you about why you want to join EY, or your career aspirations, what can you bring to the role. You know, why you really want to be there.   If you think about it from a partners perspective, they’re really looking at you and thinking, is this person worth our investment and time and money and energy and effort to get you into the organization and train you or put you through the professional training qualifications and to go on and succeed in EY. So it’s a large investment for us and we’re very happy to make it if the candidate does meet all our pass mark criteria and what we do is offer our— This year we have over a thousand places to our candidates which is really great to see that kind of, feed of fresh blood and fresh thinking and innovation coming into our organization every year. It really keeps the organization fresh, innovative; future thinking and forward moving.

After if you’re successful at our assessment centre, then, in most cases, the partner, him or herself, will then pick up the phone and call you and let you know and tell you personally and welcome you into the firm. And then following up from that we will send the usual paperwork and offer letters, all the terms and conditions and all the bits of papers you need to fill in and sign and copy and send back to us. Yes, you can then happily join us at the due start date.

James: Wow, excellent. That sounds like an interesting process. We’ve covered a lot there. So, going back, maybe, to the strengths aspect at the beginning, because personally I’ve done a lot of competency based interviews. When I was applying it was all competency based and I’ve done a competency based interviewing myself. But not really done any strength based interviewing and I did the online test of the strength based questionnaire on your website where you have to rank what you would do in particular situations and the difficulty I find with doing these is that in the back of your head you are sometimes thinking, on one hand what am I actually like as a person, but then I’m thinking, what are they’re looking for? Do I answer in terms of what I think they’re looking for, for the particular role? What advice would you give to people who are filling in the questionnaire themselves in real life?

Brian: I would say, don’t over think it.   We want to hire the natural you, the real you, the way you are in the normal circumstance; not what you’re trying to be or think you should be because then you’ll over think it, over complicate it and you can second guess yourself and probably do yourself no favours in answering the question. Just don’t rush it. Don’t have knee jerk reactions, done, and click the button in a random order. Read it. Think about it. How would you feel if the right answer was naturally appearing to you, then apply, because what I’ll say is if you’re right for the job, you get it. So people get scared by numbers and try to play the numbers game and you know, apply early or apply for certain locations, or certain roles. I always say, if you’re right for the job, you’ll get it. It’s as simple as that.   It’s quite philosophical but that always works for me. So if you read the questions, whatever you instinctively feel like the right answer, that’s the one for you. And if you think of it from another way, if you chose the answer that you would do, whatever feel right for you, and it’s not aligned to what EY is thinking, that doesn’t mean you’re a bad candidate. It just means you’re not right for EY or not right for       EY right now, and take that as a positive. That saves you, in a way, not having to complete the rest of the selection process. So, it’s a decision made for you early on and you can focus on other companies that, perhaps you are more right for. So, don’t think of it as a failure or something that is negative. It could be in the long run a positive thing should you rule out EY as a company that’s not right for you. Does that help?

James: Definitely. As you mentioned, it’s a two way process.   Not only are you right for the company but if you’re having to lie to yourself to get the job, then it’s probably not going to be the job that’s going to make you happy in the long run.

Brian: No. True.

James: Think about the first stage, the online application process. What are the main reasons that people will be rejected at this stage? What can people do to stand out and make sure that their application flies through?

Brian: Some of the best things to do are the simplest things to do. So, for example, just spell check the application form. That’s quite basic. Most web browsers will do it for you or just take it off line, copy your answer down to Word, proofread it, spell check it. Maybe get a close friend or family member to read it for you just so there’s no silly errors in there and you can position yourself as best as you physically can. Although we say to apply as early as possible because, you know, we fill the roles on a rolling basis, don’t panic. Don’t rush it. Take your time. Take as much time as reasonable and get it into us so it’s as best as you can do. We reject a large portion of the applications just because we can’t read the application. It just doesn’t make sense. It hasn’t been proofread or just silly spelling, grammatical mistakes that just doesn’t, going to position the candidate as someone who really takes care, has any pride in their work. So that would be the biggest tip I’d give, is just take that extra five minutes, maybe sleep on it and submit it the next day just to make sure it’s the best you can actually do to give yourself the best chance of getting through the selection process.

Other things, you know, really think about, we want to understand you. So, we get a lot of candidates who just put lots of bullet points and try to get as much as possible in there and it’s short little bits about lots of different things. That really won’t give us an insight into you. So, if you put lots of things like, I play cricket. I also play football. I also watch a lot of TV, or like socializing with friends. They don’t really give us a flavour of what you’re like as a person. So, do you like football? Does that mean you like to sit down on the sofa and watch football? Or do you actually play? Or are you the captain of your football team? So, we need a little bit more detail just to really get a flavour for you. We’re not looking for you to mention loads and loads of things. That actually doesn’t impress us. If you’re really passionate about two or three things and give us more detail on those, that’s actually much more impressive.

James: Socializing with friends is a line that always made me laugh because you just think, well, who doesn’t like socializing with their friends? And as a statement on a CV, on an application form, it just doesn’t mean anything at all.

Brian:  I think it’s on most CV templates as an example but people just seem to just leave it in. It’s a classic one, I think.

James:  So, moving on then from after the online application, you mentioned it was a face to face interview in one of your offices, again, looking at the strengths side of things. Again, what can people do to stand out at this stage?

Brian: Again, it’s quite simple things. So, you’ve got to come in happy to be there. You’re really enthused. Don’t be grumpy coming into the reception. Don’t complain that the office is hard to find or it’s a horrible day out there. Just be happy to be there. We invited you in. We want you to succeed. Think of an interview as a conversation with a purpose. So, the interviewer’s purpose is to find a good candidate. He or she is giving up his time to come in to meet you on the hope that you will be good and you will progress to the assessment centre. That means one less interview to do because you’ve got a good candidate in the bag. The purpose for the candidate is obviously to get the job. If that’s not the reasoning for being there, if you’re there just for the interview or you’re there just to have a look at the offices, that will come across that you’re not as interested and as keen as, potentially another candidate who’s waiting just behind you to come in for an interview as well. So, be happy to be there. Be enthused and be ready for the interview as well.

In this day and age you could be sitting in the reception waiting for the interviewer. If you got there kind of on time, a few minutes early, get out your smart phone and have a look at Twitter, have a look at our website, have a look at our Facebook page. You know, ideally do it before the day of the interview but research so when you’re asked about EY or you want to talk about why you want to work in EY, you don’t just repeat the standard corporate spiel or whatever is on the homepage or on the “About EY” section you read on whatever career site you were looking at, and you know why you want to work in EY. What is it about EY that resonates with you? What is the thing that you’ve read about EY or have seen about EY that really appeals to you? Was it one of our initiatives, entrepreneur of the year, one of our social initiatives from EY Foundation. Was it someone you met on campus who really inspired you? Was it the previous interviewer? Just tell us why you’re sitting here today. Why do you really want this job and why should we hire you. And also, remember again, from the interviewer’s point of view, he’s looking at you, he or she is looking at you as a potential colleague. They’ll want to know from this person in front of me, can he or she, you know, be willing to work with me on my client engagements and they’ll want them on the team. Will I be happy to have lunch with this person, drink coffee with this person? This is not all about, will this person be quick to respond to emails or solve a problem. There’s got to be a connection on the personal level as well. It’s a very professional selection process. It’s not all about you supporting the same football team as the manager interviewing you. But it’s about them knowing that they can work with you and you’ll fit well into the team. And that’s part of what the strength selection process is all about.

James:  I completely agree and positivity is such an important aspect. If you walk in and there’s someone smiling and you actually want to speak to them, it makes such a different. When I’ve done interviews myself, the question of why you want to work here was really one for me that would separate the alright candidates from the good candidates. The good candidates would have spoken to people. They’ve made an effort. They’ve been to the Insight days or they’ve been to the open days. They’ve spoken to you at the careers fairs. You know, they’ve spoken to people on grad scheme. You know, they’ve really, they’ve really done something and they know about the company whereas the alright so-so candidates, as you said, they’ve looked on the website. It’s in the top 100 companies to apply for. I thought I might as well. It’s really one that separates the wheat from the chaff.

Brian: The thing I say as well is, don’t give up. The interviewer has got a number of questions and the interviewers are trained not to take first impressions or make off the cuff decisions. You know, they’ve been trained about unconscious bias. So they’ve got a lot of training to do the interview. So, if you make a mistake at the welcome and the reception and you trip up or you say something that is quite silly, you know, the interviewer is trying to forgive that. So, continue with the interview as professional as possible. So, candidates often overanalyze it, stress themselves out a bit, shoot themselves in the foot and then they don’t give themselves another chance. And the first 30 seconds of an interview does not decide the remaining 45 minutes. So think about that. Stay positive during the interview. You know, you might have said one or two answers, your subconscious is going to tell you, that wasn’t the greatest answer but remember the interviewers are highly trained. They will give you the rest of the interview to make an overall decision. So don’t panic if the welcome in reception doesn’t go as well as possible. If you stumble your first few words there, the interview is designed to give you a chance to get engaged and build a better rapport. So you do well in the rest of the interview.

James: Moving on now to the stage that I think most people find quite daunting, the assessment centres. Do they tend to take place around the country or is it just in London? Are they half days or full days?

Brian:  We have them in nearly all the offices around the UK. We have a lot of graduates joining all over the UK. So, we try to align them to wherever you want to work. So, if you apply to a Manchester office, ideally you’ll have your first interview at the Manchester office, and you’ll have your assessment centre at the Manchester office. In the odd occasion, due to interviewer availability, and also candidates may be kind of in-between a couple of offices, we’ll work with them to find a way to best place them. They might get their first interview in Leeds but then the assessment centre in Manchester and then start in Manchester. Or you might do your first interview in Newcastle office and then permanently be based in the Hull office. We work with the candidate on that. We’re not very prescriptive and we also look at the candidate’s availability. If the next assessment centre in the Manchester office isn’t for two or three weeks because they rescheduled them, but there’s one happening in London perhaps the candidate is interested and keen, we’ll book them in London but then we’ll look at paying some expenses back to the candidate for train fare or money towards an overnight stay. So, we’re quite flexible with that but they are, typically, in the EY office and ideally the interview and the assessment centre is in the office you will be working in if successful.

James:  And do people need to prepare in advance? You talked about the written exercises. Is that one that would be given on the day? Or is it one that people would need to prep for before?

Brian: Normally, all in the day. You literally let the process work. You will be called on the Monday and if you’re willing and able you can come to the assessment the next day. There’s no pre course work, no pre assessment centre work required. But prep in terms of, you know, get yourself ready, iron your shirt, get your smart clothes ready. Don’t turn up in jeans and trainers or Mickey Mouse jumpers and lots of weird attire some students have and have attended in. Be smart and presentable. Do you homework, as I said. Look up the company and just have a good night sleep and check that you eat the next morning. It’s just practical things that you should do just to prepare yourself for, just to perform your best at the assessment centre. You get one shot at it and on the back of it, yeah you could have an enjoyable career in one of the large graduate recruiters here in the UK, one of the largest professional firms in the UK so it’s worth to take that little bit extra time to slightly earlier train perhaps, or stay up a little bit just to get a little extra sleep but still get that good night sleep and make yourself mentally and physically prepared for the day in the offices.

In this assessment, this is a half day assessment centre. You arrive at nine. The actual assessment doesn’t start, the first assessment doesn’t start till half nine. It’s a chance to come in, drink coffee with a pastry or something, with other delegates and candidates, and meet with the assessors fairly informally. We do a round of introductions. Then the day starts and it’s got some gaps in the agenda so you’re not rushed from assessment to assessment, and room to room. You meet loads of other people. There’s time to meet and talk to everybody you’re introduced, and get to know people who you could be working with as well. And it finishes at 13:00 and you get lunch and some of the existing graduates or people on the industrial placement program. If they’re in the office, will pop along as well. They’ll chat to you in a kind of separate room. It’s not recorded.   It’s not part of the assessment process. It gives you as the candidate the chance to talk to existing EY employees what it’s really, really like to work in EY and they’ll give you a fairly honest answer of what it’s like to work here. So, you as a candidate can, hopefully leave the assessment centre wanting to work in EY, wanting to work in EY for the right reasons and if you are, we’re going to call you and one of the partners is going to call you and make an offer. Ideally you want that offer and everything works out for everybody involved.

James:  You mentioned the partner interview there. Again, what can candidates do to impress at the partner interview? You mentioned about why they wanted to work at EY. Why they are worth EY investing money in hiring them. What else can they do to really stand out?

Brian:  Not much more, to be honest. It’s an interview. People get quite daunted with partners.   Partners are owner managers of the firm. They’re very switched on. They’re very engaging people, though, as well and they’re keen to see candidates succeed. Often the partners have a vested interest in the grad program.   Many of them have been through the EY grad program or have been to university and know exactly what the graduate is going through. They’re quite keen to build a personal relationship as well, that one to one connection. It is a one to one interview for that reason as well. So, it isn’t about impressing someone who’s there to exam, to perform an exam on you or try to trip you up. It isn’t like the Apprentice program style of interview where they’re just out to get you and make you look silly. They want you to be the best. They have a vested interest and they’re hoping that the rest of the selection process has been effective enough to deliver through to them that day at the assessment centre a high calibre candidate. So, they want you to succeed. It’s in their interest and it makes the whole process more efficient if they see, you know, if the ratio of candidates that they saw to ones that are offered is as close as possible one to one they are very happy. And they will, you know, feedback, if you’re not quite right, they will tell you that. It’s part of the process. We will feedback at the end of the assessment centre what you did well and not so well, particularly if you didn’t get the role and the partners are there, they will make a decision. They will ask you some tough questions but they’re asking because they want to see you answer them well and show yourself in the best light and show that you’re worth that offer. So, they want to enjoy the interview as much as you do. So, don’t be daunted by the fact that they’re there. They’re very experienced professionals. They’re seasoned professionals. They really have common sense and business awareness and they are also people too and they want to hire more people into the organization that would help the organization that they own and manage to continue to do well.

James: You talked about internships and Leadership Academy and industrial placements. So, thinking about the internships, are they open to all students? Or is it the students in specific years that can only apply?

Brian:   Summer Internship programmes are aimed at people going into their last year at university. So, the idea is you do six weeks with us and if that goes well, you are offered a grad position at the end of the six weeks, not given to you on the last day but after the six weeks and assessment and people to review your performance. Then, if you do well and you want to come back, that also a valid question, we will then offer you to come back, straight back into the graduate programme the following September. The assessment process that will get you into either summer internship or industrial placement is the same as the graduate process. So, if you pass it and you get in for six weeks, then at the end of the six weeks, all going well, it’s just basically an offer gets sent out straight out to you to come join us the following September.

Same as the industrial placements; these are students who have taken a year out between their penultimate and final year to work for EY for 12 months as part of their degree. At the end of the 12 months, all going well, we will also offer them an offer to come back the following September to join. Obviously that’s dependent on them getting the 2:1 degree, which the majority do these days. So, it is a really good way of getting in ahead of the crowd. So, I would say to graduates who haven’t done an internship with us or an industrial placement) and looking at a number, simple maths will tell you if we’re hiring even 800 graduates a year. We’ve hired 300 some odd interns; 100 industrial placements. That’s the leaves a chunk of roles to be filled. So, although there are some ones who’ve done the summer internships and industrial placements have got an offer in the bag before they’ve even got to market with us, there’s still plenty more for other students who haven’t worked for us directly. So, you can still apply. Don’t be put off by that.   It’s not our only in into the graduate careers at EY.

James: Well, that’s good. That would be an amazing opportunity to have the offer in the bag and also to spend six weeks finding out exactly what part of the business you want to go into and if the role is right for you and if it’s the company you want to work for; and then, being able to spend the final year concentrating on your studies as opposed to studying and trying to find a job as well.

Brian: Yes, ideal. Yes.

James: Brian, excellent. We’re running out of time. So, let’s move on to the quick fire round of questions. What one book would you recommend our listeners to read?

Brian: I’ve recommended this book to a lot of people. It just was an inspirational book for me. It’s about 10 years old now, but it’s called Take One Young Man by an author called Vivien Kelly. It’s about a guy who is in his first job in an advertising agency and he’s starting to get a feel for the corporate world and it’s not for him and he has proper kind of soul-setting of what does he really want to do. And he ended up going to – I’m not spoiling the story; it’s how he gets there — he ends up joining an expedition to Antarctica.   So, quite an extreme change of career path but it’s quite an inspirational book for people thinking about what do we want to do with my life and it’s a jolly good read. I definitely recommend that. It’s 10 years old but still one of my favourite books and one I recommend to a lot of people to read.

James:  Super. That’s a new one for me. I’ll add that one to the list. And all the links and everything we’ve talked about will be in the show notes. So listeners will be able to find the link to that book in the show notes.

And Brian, what one website would you recommend to our listeners?

Brian: I went to a presentation in LSE from one of the guys and it was just an amazing cool funky         presentation and I was encouraged to have a look at their website and it’s called Brain Juicer.   I’d recommend the website just purely because it’s from one of the most intriguing, interesting, just cool websites I’ve ever been on.  It’s a company that does marketing; particularly, student and marketing. I’m not recommending the company. I’ve not worked with them. All I can say is their presentation was fantastic and their website is just very, very cool. Definitely, worth a look.

James: I will check that out as soon as we finish speaking.

And finally, what one tip would you give listeners that they can implement today on their job hunt?

Brian: People often talk about in interviews about the star technique: situation, task, action and result. Having done many, many, many interviews, particularly student interviews, please, please, please, make your STAR interesting, particularly the S. Try and find a slightly different situation that not every one of the 400,000 odd students have been through, that team working exercise on assignment where somebody didn’t pull their weight or on the football pitch and we’re losing in the first half and did that classic pep talk. Just try to find something a little bit more interesting with a slight spin on it. It doesn’t have to be, you know, I had a year out and I was building an orphanage in Borneo. It doesn’t have to be that extreme, but just try to make the S of your STAR in your interview just that little more interesting. It just helps engage the interviewer who has heard similar examples, maybe, hundreds of times before. So, as a seasoned interviewer, I still like to hear similar kind of answers but when the S in the STAR is very interesting, the candidates chances rapidly increase in my eyes.

James: That’s brilliant advice. Yeah, you do find a lot of the, like you said identikit CV, you find almost an identikit application form where people are just repeating the same. I was doing some course work and one person wasn’t taking, pulling their weight. So then we had to work together to come to a conclusion.

Brian: It’s a good exercise. People have to learn to work as a team. I know you’ve all done it. Try to find a different spin on that. Having said that, I did interview once a candidate who was the candidate not pulling his weight and he recognized that. So, I was, oh, it’s you. That was one of many, many hundreds I’ve done.

James: Excellent. Thank you, Brian. What is the best way that listeners can find out more about EY and the graduate schemes?

Brian: We have a careers guide; https://www.ey.com/en_uk/careers a fantastic site. All the information you ever want to know about all our programs, joining EY. How to get here; videos; there’s content; there’s maps and all the details you ever need; an award winning site. So, I definitely recommend the readers to go to https://www.ey.com/en_uk/careers and for our first year, pen-ultimate years, graduates, it’s all there, all singing all dancing. Definitely go there for any more information on EY.

James: Brian, thank you very much for your time today.

Brian: Absolute pleasure. Speak to you soon.

James: Thankyou to Brian Sinclair for his time and insight into the recruitment process at EY. As usual a couple of things stood out for me. The first was the number of applicants he mentioned that applied. 25,000……The first reaction of some of the clients I coach when they here a number like that is to think, 25,000, what’s the point, what chance have I got, well the answer is zero, you have zero chance if you don’t apply. 25,000 sounds a lot, and it is. Put they have a 1000 places, a one in 25 chance. You still might think that’s a lot, but you’ve got to back yourself. As Brian said, at the first stage they get rid of the swathe of people who can’t be bothered to spell check their applications. Basics people, and I know lovely listeners that’s not going to be you, so say, maybe 3000 fail that hurdle, then there are the many people who apply whose applications aren’t well written, they don’t answer the questions, it’s just copy and pasted from another company, again, I’m sure that’s not going to be you. So you will easily get rid of say another 7000 applications at that stage. So after stage one it’s down to 1 in 15 chance already. Next easily 5000 will fail the online tests and you’re down to a 1 in 10 chance already. You’re made an active decision to listen to this podcast, which means so you’re the type of person who wants to improve, and learn, so you are already well ahead of the field. The interview stage will get rid of another half but you’ll be fine as you will have listened to episode 1 on interviews with Jon Gregory, and when the assessment centre comes up you will be amazing as you will have listened to episode 2 with Denise Taylor. Although the number of applicants initially can seem daunting, you have to back yourself. They hire 1000 people a year, why shouldn’t you be one of them. Have confidence in yourself, let other people make the silly mistakes while you sail through the process.

The second key point for me was on EY’s use of a strengths based approach. We’ve talked a lot in previous episodes about the need for you to understand your values and exactly what your strengths are. Indeed in episode 14 on the 7 books every graduates should read, the first book I recommended was Strengthsfinder 2.0, which will guide you through what your top 5 strengths are. Imagine the impact you will make at the first strengths based interview, when you can confidently and proactively walk in there and discuss what your strengths are and how you will use them in your career at EY. Is that going to make you stand out? You know it is. And on the flip side of strengths, make sure you are being honest when you do them. As Brian said, if you are in a job working from a position of strength you’re going to love your job. And if you’re not, work isn’t going to be as fun as it could and should be.

The final insight is on the power of the internship. If EY is a place you want to work then make sure you do your research and apply for the internship. Do a good job in those 6 weeks and the job offer will be waiting there at the end for you. You can then concentrate on your final year with the job in the bag, and be ready to really hit the ground running when you start. If you weren’t to get it it also means you can have a second bite at the cherry afterwards by applying for the graduate scheme. And you should be in a better position then as you will have a better idea about what to expect.

Right that is me done. For a full transcript of everything that we’ve discussed and all the links check out the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/EY .

Do get in touch with us on Twitter @gradjobpodcast, and if you’ve enjoyed the show please leave a review on ITunes or Stitcher radio, as I say every week it’s the best way other than sharing us with your friends to show appreciation for the podcast and it helps massively in the ranking on iTunes. Also if you’ve not already subscribed via Itunes or Stitcher radio, you need to sort that out, it’s the easiest way to get each episode delivered to you for free and to make sure that you don’t miss a thing. Finally, I hope you enjoyed the episode today, but more importantly I hope you use it and apply it. See you next week.

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