Episode 120: How a disastrous teenage love life will help you get a graduate job

August 31, 2021 Podcast

For the 120th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast I speak with graduate recruitment expert, author and Netflix TV show producer Andrew Osayemi, who takes us through how his disastrous teenage love life will help you get a graduate job. In today’s wide-ranging episode, Andrew shares his experiences from both sides of the graduate recruitment fence, and we discuss why getting on a graduate scheme is just like dating. We cover how getting a graduate job is like getting into a top nightclub, and the strategies you need to adopt to get into both. We explore why you need more than just good grades when you apply, and how playing poker led Andrew to career success. We delve into the skills you need to succeed in a job interview and why you should definitely be practising your small talk skills and utilizing the power of telling stories. It’s a fun episode and no matter what you are applying for, not one that you will want to miss. As always you can find a full transcript including all of the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/dating.

MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:

  • How Andrew’s disastrous teenage love life helped him get a graduate job
  • Why getting on a graduate scheme is like dating
  • How getting a graduate job is like getting into a top nightclub
  • Why you need more than just good grades
  • How playing poker led Andrew to career success
  • Why you should practice your small talk skills
  • The power of telling stories when you have a job interview

SELECTED LINKS INCLUDE:

Transcript 120 – How a disastrous teenage love life will help you get a graduate job

Announcer: Welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, your home for weekly information and inspiration to help you get the graduate job of your dreams.

James: Hello and welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, with your host James Curran. The Graduate Job Podcast is your home for all things related to helping you on your journey to finding that amazing job. Each episode I bring together the best minds in the industry, speaking to leading authors, graduate recruiters and career coaches who bring decades of experience into a byte size show. Put simply, this is the show I wish I had when I graduated.

Hello and welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, and today I have a cracker of a show for you, and an inspiring one to boot, as I speak with graduate recruitment expert, author and Netflix TV show producer Andrew Osayemi, who takes us through how his disastrous teenage love life will help you get a graduate job. In today’s wide ranging episode, Andrew shares his experiences from both sides of the graduate recruitment fence, and we discuss why getting on a graduate scheme is just like dating. We cover how getting a graduate job is like getting into a top nightclub, and the strategies you need to adopt to get into both. We explore why you need more than just good grades when you apply, and how playing poker led Andrew to career success. We delve into the skills you need to succeed in a job interview and why you should definitely be practicing your small talk skills and utilizing the power of telling stories. It’s a fun episode and no matter what you are applying for, not one that you will want to miss. As always you can find a full transcript including all of the shownotes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/dating.

Before we get into the show today let me tell you about my brilliant online course cunningly titled How to Get a Graduate Job which is OPEN again for new members who want to turbo charge their hunt for a graduate job this year. 7 people joined the course last year and I’m extremely proud to say that they ALL got graduate jobs, with most of them as you will have heard from the previous 5 episodes with Sibrah, Saffy, Jack, Callum and Athavan getting multiple offers. The course works, checks out episodes 115 – 119 to hear for yourself. You might be wondering what is included, well it is yours truly boiling down my nearly 20 years of graduate recruitment experience and 120 episodes of the show into 14 hours of video tutorial content across 8 modules 23 video tutorials. I go through every, and I mean every aspect of the application process, from getting ready to apply, the online application stage, creating a brilliant CV or Cover Letter, practicing recorded video interviews. If you need to know it to get a graduate job it is in there. If you are quick you can still sign up for my August special offer including £375 of 1-2-1 coaching with yours truly if you sign up before the 31st of August. That is 5 hours of one-on-one coaching with me where we can practice recorded video interviews, get you ready for assessment centres, get your CV perfected, whatever you want to cover. You have 5 hours with me to use as you see fit. This offer will run to the 31st of August so don’t hang about, get yourself to www.howtogetagraduatejob.com and sign up now. Of course this is in addition to the 14 hours of video tutorial content, handouts and cheat sheets galore, private members Facebook group, and weekly webinars which I will be running every Tuesday night. If you want proof it works, listen to my episode with Sibrah and the previous 4 episodes…it worked for them and it will work for you too. That’s www.howtogetagraduatejob.com, and I look forward to you joining me in the course soon. Ok, let’s jump into my chat with Andrew.

James Curran: I’m pleased to welcome to the show today, Andrew Osayemi, who was a Netflix TV show creator, ex-financial markets trader, and a graduate recruitment expert, who has helped 1000s of high potential students to get top internships and graduate jobs. Andrew, welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast.

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, thank you for having me. Yes, I was wondering who you were talking about there.

James Curran: No, you’ve had a fascinating career to date. And maybe you want to give us a proper introduction of how you came to write your new book, How My Disastrous Teenage Love life will get you a Dream Job, which we will discuss today.

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, it all started with failure. So, I went out to schools. So, I work in, graduate recruitment trying to help students get jobs. And I used to get sent to inner-city schools to talk about interviews, I remember going to the schools, you turn up, there are about 200 300 kids in assembly, and you get up on stage and start talking about interviews. And I kid you not, after speaking about interviews for at least five seconds, people start talking with each other, they just don’t want to know, it’s not interesting at all. So, I struggled with this. And I thought to myself, okay, let me go into my life, and test something.

So, the next school I went to, I turned up, and I said to the people, they said, let’s introduce Andrew Osayemi, to come and talk about interviews, and I can already see their faces about, to glaze over. And I stood up and said, raise your hand if you have ever been in love. And then you could hear a pin drop. And then one person put their hand up, another person nervously put their hand up, and I spent the next hour with their full attention, talking about my love life, the issues I’ve had growing up as a teenager, and how they can use that to help get them a job. And the standing ovation I’ve got at the end. It’s one of the teachers came up to me and said, look, you need to write a book. And that was the emphasis of, okay, how do I get my stories about my disastrous teenage love life on paper, to help young people?

James Curran: Excellent. And to be honest, I wish I had had the book when I was applying for jobs. But also, I wish I had the book when I was a young man dating as well it would have been useful. And today, we’re going to go through the book and listeners, as usual, you can find a full transcript of all the links that we discussed, including a link to the book, in the show notes at graduatejobpodcast.com/dating. So, let’s maybe kick off with a comment from your friend Kay, in the book, where he says getting a job is the same as dating. It’s all about getting someone to like you, and to decide that you are worth investing in. Take us through here and why Kay, has a point?

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, no, Kay has a massive point. And just to give the listeners a bit of a backstory. So, Kay is one of my best friends, he’s my best friend. And he’s someone that probably a lot of people knew growing up, whatever they did, they were just so lucky. They attracted relationships. And someone like myself, I wasn’t outside looking in, I could not in my wildest dreams get the same amount of love and attention that Kay did. So, I thought it was all down to luck. Then one day I spoke to Kay. And he told me that no, that he’s been rejected so many times, from potential, women he’s interested in that he’s had to, toughen up and practice at that, trying to find the love of his life, essentially.

And you have to do the same for an interview. So, he gave me an analogy, as he said that, interviews are all about, it’s almost like dating. It’s like a first date or the second date. If you get to the second round, where people are kind of sizing each other up seeing will you fit into this organization? And you’re also trying to do the same as well thinking, would I fit in as well? And that’s, I think, essentially what interview is all about?

James Curran: Definitely. And you talk lots of fun anecdotes throughout the book about your dating life, and we’ll touch on some of those later on. So, maybe then starting with chapter one, which is about doing your research. What is so key when you’re looking for a graduate job to make sure that you are doing your research properly?

Andrew Osayemi: You know what I find is that, I remember being a graduate. And I went to the University of Warwick. And we used to have loads of firms come down, and essentially pitch themselves to us. And what you would do and it’s quite common, you’ll just apply to all of them just because you’re, my God, I need a job. But if you don’t do your research, when you get to interview, or even, to try and get to interview, even when you try and craft your CV, your cover letter, you will struggle to figure out whether or not this job is for you, or whether or not, they would like you as well. So, doing your research will save you so much time. I remember, and I think I discussed it in the book where I remember a young lady, she found me at a wedding, I was trying to tuck into the buffet.

But she was desperate. I was just like, she’s like “Andrew, can you give me some advice”, and I’m thinking, I’m just here to have fun, but there was something in her eyes. And she was trying to get into accountancy. And she didn’t realize because she hadn’t done her research that they look as far back as GCSE and maybe like your GCSE grades, your math grades in particular and she had failed that. And by just doing that bit of research and her knowing that she was able to go back and rectify that by retaking her math’s GCSE. So, it’s all about, if you do your research, it will save you so much time to get to the angle of where you want to get to.

James Curran: Definitely. And otherwise, you could be sending off these applications and wondering why you’re not getting anywhere. And it’s because you’re not meeting one of the key criteria that are down in the small print later on that you need to say revolve, whatever it might be.

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, exactly.

James Curran: And in the book, you talk about your first interview with Goldman Sachs, when you were applying for a role there. Can you tell us about this example? And what went wrong in that one?

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, so again, this is another one where I was first was lucky to get an interview. Whereas I got the interview for a social mobility scheme to help people from disadvantaged backgrounds, which was good and bad. Was good because I got the interview, it was bad because I had no clue who Goldman Sachs were. When someone said to me, you’re going for a banking interview and that’s what I was told you’re going for a banking interview, I was under the impression that it was a retail bank because growing up when someone mentioned bank, you thought it was something that you saw in high streets. I had no idea what an investment bank was.

So, I walked up to the interview, I’m there early, I am on time, I’m looking good. But I’m essentially thinking, this interview is about being a bank manager or cashier, and I’m giving them my best pitch. And they’re looking at me like, is this guy for real? Does he know what investment banking is? And to be honest, it was one of my shortest interviews ever, I think it lasted about five to 10 minutes before I got let go. And it was essentially just because I had no clue, and no idea and I hadn’t done my research and you’ll find that a lot where students have misconceptions of things.

I remember speaking to students and they were applying to Rolls Royce but they were thinking that it was Rolls Royce, the car company, but Rolls Royce had sold the car business to another firm years ago. Rolls Royce now just focuses on creating machinery for airplanes and stuff like that. So again, they rock up thinking they’re talking about cars and car parts but it’s about engineering. So doing your research and knowing what you’re talking about is so important.

James Curran: That’s why you’re going to make an impression, but for the wrong reasons. And I like in the book, your analogy, you mentioned about trying to get into nightclubs when you were younger, and how you only managed to get in by getting there as soon as they opened and getting in at say 10 o’clock when they opened. And we’re talking about how this strategy is the same one you need for internships in applying as soon as they open. Why do you think this is the case? 

Andrew Osayemi: So, this is something I never knew before, about rolling versus fixed deadlines and you can completely understand that if you’re in an HR Department, you open your application on Monday and you’re going to close in four weeks. If you start screening applications in four weeks, that’s a lot of work. Why not, as soon as applications come in, you start the screen and then you start interviewing and that’s what happens at a lot of firms. Within the first week, they’re already screening, and they’re already interviewing.

But what that does is that benefits people who are super researchers, super keen, which let’s face it, majority of students are not, we’re still looking around trying to figure out what’s the best thing for them. And it does disadvantage students who throughout the summer didn’t do their research and figured out what they wanted to do. So, my advice that we give to students is to spend the summer researching. But as soon as the mid-term starts, in early September, you need to get your applications in as soon as possible to stand a chance.

James Curran: Completely agree. And as you mentioned, in that example, if you’re one of the first applications that open on a Monday, and you managed to get your application in on a Tuesday or Wednesday, you probably only have a handful of people that’s going to apply. Then about the final days of the application process, there’s going to be hundreds of applications coming through. So, it just becomes so much more difficult to stand out when you’re one of 300 as opposed to one of five.

Andrew Osayemi: That’s right. And every firm tells me that on the last day, something always goes wrong with technology. It could be graduate site crashes, or something happens. And that’s because so many people are applying on the last day. And you don’t want to be in a situation where your application doesn’t get through due to some kind of technical difficulty.

James Curran: Exactly. And you know, if you’re talking in your CV and cover letter about how you’ve got great time management and project management skills, or whatever it might be, but then you’re applying at the last minute, then it doesn’t correspond with what you’re talking about in your CV. So, make sure you are getting it in as early as possible, but still making sure it’s high quality. But yes, the earlier the better.

Andrew Osayemi: Absolutely.

James Curran: So, let’s move on to chapter two in the book then, which is about being more interesting. Why is it crucial when you look for work? 

Andrew Osayemi: I think nowadays, there are so many people going to uni, there are so many people, so it is so hard to stand out. For every job, you can only imagine how many applications are for every available job. So as an applicant you want someone looking at your CV, to be like this person is so interesting, I just need to bring them in just to talk about what they’ve written on their CV. This is amazing. And then when you get to interview, you want to be able to say the same things in such an engaging and interesting manner, that they leave the interview thinking, we need to hire this person in some kind of fashion. 

This person is amazing, they’re memorable, they’re special, let’s hire them. If you don’t, and I think this is what happens to a lot of students, if you strip away your personality, and you just rely on your academic performance, unfortunately, there are so many people just like you, that you will not stand out. So, you have to go into your personality and your experiences and be proud and be able to talk about them with confidence. 

James Curran: And you see that with people who get a first who almost think ‘I’ve got a first, boom, that’s it, don’t need to do it, don’t need anything else, don’t need work experience, don’t need to talk about anything else, the first is good enough’ and it’s not. Companies said they want to see a rounded candidate; they want to see that you’ve done other interesting things. So, you can’t be relying on your degree because it’s not going to cut the mustard.

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, and I think unfortunately students that come from working-class backgrounds, or disadvantaged backgrounds suffered the most because the parents of those students are constantly focused on the wrong things. They’re like, get a first, don’t do any extra work just focus on getting an a first. And I feel for all students who do get the first but they just have no employability skills at all and they find it very difficult. And all students just end up staying in academia and going on to do a Masters and PhD, when if they had done a little bit, just a tiny little bit of work experience they would have done a lot better and got ahead in life.

James Curran: Definitely. And I was reviewing one CV last week, and in the hobbies and interests section at the bottom of the CV the candidate had put in her hobbies include watching TV and reading. And I was saying to them, this is a perfect opportunity to talk about interesting things, which you do that are interesting that someone is going to read and go ‘I want to talk to them about that’. And it doesn’t have to be that you’ve walked across Africa for charity or done something huge, it’s just be honest, but make sure it’s interesting. Watching TV and reading isn’t interesting, you might enjoy breathing regularly and eating three meals a day. It’s just everyone likes to do that,  but whether it’s knitting or you started the Harry Potter society at university, whatever it might be, do something which gives you a chance to build rapport with someone you’re speaking to later on because now it’s something a hook to give them that they’ll be like, yes, tell us about it. 

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, I remember this going back years ago, on my CV, I had a professional poker player. And every interview I went to, they were like, tell us more about this professional poker player. And I will go and talk about how playing poker at uni, I’ve been able to pay for my university, pay for any fees, didn’t have to work and it was just that one thing they were like, no one has ever put a professional poker player on their CV and that’s why we’re interviewing you today. So yes, you’re right those hobbies and interests are crucial to getting an interview.

James Curran: So, listeners yes, a chance to dust down those playing cards and start playing poker. Do you still play?

Andrew Osayemi: No, unfortunately, the wife won’t allow me to play poker anymore. But no, when I mean I don’t play, I don’t play as professionally as I did but I do play it, recreationally. Yeah. It’s all fun and games and testing your skills.

James Curran: Especially when you’re applying for investment banking and quantitative roles. There’s so much you can talk about with poker in terms of probability and things like that. So, it’s a good link to the roles that you’re applying for.

Andrew Osayemi: No, it was and the funny thing, and then you raise a good point and it was because of playing poker. I remember our poker society in Warwick. I used to play poker and then because I was good at it, students used to say to me, and I knew nothing about trading back then. They say, Andrew, why don’t you apply to trading because the skills that you use in poker would be good for trading. So sometimes your hobbies can lead you to the thing, or the professional, the career that you want to go into. So, not talking about them, you’re missing an opportunity for you to find your why and what you want to do in your life.

James Curran: Now that’s good. So let me, sticking with the interesting angle that you talk about in the book about small talk as letting you down on dates in the past, and you telling why it’s so important in job interviews. Why should candidates be thinking about their small talk skills?

Andrew Osayemi: Do you know what it’s all about energy? And I’m sure that you’ve been there, you met someone for the first time and the first few seconds or the first few minutes, almost depict your impression of them and it’s all about energy. If you meet someone bubbly, full of energy, interesting asking you lots of questions, not afraid to talk about their day. At the beginning of an interview, the first minute, you’re instantly going to warm to them, and be like this person is interesting, this person is enthusiastic, I want this person in the team.

If you meet someone who is a bit cold, is a bit nervous, doesn’t warm up throughout the interview, gives you the one- or two-line answers like the void of any personality, the impression is just going to be a bit like I don’t know what it’s about, I don’t know what it is about that person, but I don’t feel they’re going to fit into the team. So, working in your small talk, I coach people to have two or three random stories they can talk about at the beginning of the interview. I advise the person who’s the interviewee to calm down the interviewer, make them feel at ease, most times the interviewer is trying to make the interviewee feel at ease but I say no reverse the role, you take control of the interview, make the person feel at ease from being so warm and friendly and confident in the beginning.

James Curran: Yes, no I love that and the keyword from what you said for me that stood out was positive. I can remember from doing a telephone interview back in the day where you meet someone who’s applying for a role with a management consultancy and you’re trying to have a bit of small talk and ask them how their day was and one candidate was, ‘I missed the bus and it was raining and this just went wrong and this went wrong’. And immediately I was just stuck with this person is really negative. Yes, in terms of energy it just gets off on the wrong foot and at the end of the day when you’re doing interviews, the fundamental question you’re always asking yourself is, would I want to work with this person? Would I want to be sat next to them for eight hours a day? And when you come across people who are just Debbie Downers, the answer is not really.

Andrew Osayemi: No, it’s true. It’s very true.

James Curran: So, let’s move on then to chapter three, which is about being able to back it up. How is this relevant when you’re looking for work?

Andrew Osayemi: As I said earlier, there are so many people looking for jobs at the moment. So, there are so many people who are prepped and so many people who can talk for four hours, but there are only a few people who can back it up and that’s the key thing. What you want to expect, to give the sense to an interviewer is that you’re charming, you’re fine, you’re interesting but you’ve done stuff and when you say you’re hard-working, and you can give evidence of it. So, I say to people, you can’t just say it, you have to prove it. 

And that is the thing that employers are looking for, most importantly, just to say, is this person for real? I almost look at interviews, sometimes as interviewers, as being almost like a detective because they’re trying to pick out everyone’s going to say, I’m the best person for the role. So, they throw you this kind of interrogation questions, just to think and decide, are you for real? And provide evidence, providing examples, backs up the fact that you for real, you’re a good person for the job.

James Curran: Completely. You see this way of CVs or poor-quality CVs, where people just have this laundry list of skills, where you know, I am hardworking, I’m dedicated, I’m creative. Whatever it might be, and there’s nothing to back it up. So, you look at it, and you think, well, how do I know that you’re all of these things. So, in an interview situation, you need to be able to back it up with an example of where you’ve demonstrated the particular skill or competency or strength, just to show people that I’m not making this up. I’ll make it easy for you, you don’t need to do the detective work because I’m telling you the specific time that I’ve developed this skill, and yes, it just makes it so much easier for the interviewer.

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, and it’s like dating, right. It’s like dating on the first day, or the second day or however long days it takes for someone to get to know, they’re asking these questions, isn’t it? You’re trying to find evidence? Are you a good boyfriend? Are you a good girlfriend? How many marriages have you had? Have you been divorced? How many kids have you got? All these kinds of questions are just there because everyone goes into a dating situation like I’m the perfect partner for you but trying to see, can you back it up? And that’s what we’re trying to get to with students in these scenarios.

James Curran: So, let’s move on then to chapter four which is you need to have a why you story. Can you tell us what a why you story is, and why it is important?

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, with the why you story, I strongly believe at one point in time in an interview, they’re going to stop and say “so pitch to us. Why should we hire you?”          And they can ask that question in a manner of different ways. It could be how do you stand out from your peers? What’s special about you? Why should we hire you? How can you demonstrate you can bring value to the team? But essentially, they’re all the same thing. They’re asking you, why you and that’s the time for you to pitch. And what I say to people is, this is an important thing as a chance for you to leave an impression. So, lead with stories. 

So, if you can come and say, I remember I was speaking to someone and someone said to me, I said, why should we hire you? And they said to me that “you should hire me because I came as a stowaway from Afghanistan. And I had to travel across 15 different countries to come to the UK”. And I was like, wow, no one else had ever said that. To me. it resonated in my mind is stuck. And just to have that simple story demonstrated so many skills of that person must have fought well, that is impressive. That is something I’m going to take into consideration or why I should hire this person? But if he just says you should hire me because I’ve got great attention to detail, I’m hardworking, and I’m a lovely guy. Million other people can say that so you need to find your why you story, which makes you stand out from the crowd.

James Curran: I love that. And stories that are so powerful mean so much more memorable. And people remember stories and you want the recruiter to remember you for the right reasons. So, if you can tell stories well, completely agree it’s a good tool in your arsenal.

Andrew Osayemi: Yes.

James Curran: So, let’s move on to the final chapter of the book, which is practice, review and repeat. So, I love this approach, could you expand on why it is crucial to adopt you look for work?

Andrew Osayemi: It’s simply because and this is for anyone listening. Because you’re not going to be the finished product at the beginning. You need to put yourself out there you need to practice, review your performance, and repeat it. And this happened to me many times in my life, and it’s for whatever goal you have, when you first start it is not going to be perfect. I remember when I left banking, I went into TV production, and my first pilot I made I thought it was amazing. And it was going to get me, ITV, BBC, all the TV companies chasing me, for me to produce it. And absolutely none of them was interested.

And it was only when I reviewed the pilot, I went back, dissected it, looked at what was wrong, got feedback from others took it on board, and then re-crafted it remade it completely changed the cast, change the themes. That was only when I was able to get better. And ultimately, which led me to sell my show to Netflix in the end. So, you have to take the same approach with interviews. And that would probably revolve around, you doing mock interviews with your friends. And then actually going out to doing interviews with firms and not be discouraged if you get a rejection. Just take the feedback, work on it to improve. And through that mindset, you will get the job of your dreams.

James Curran: I love that it’s about you know, taking the setbacks you face and rejections you face and analyzing it, learning from it, and then improving. And if you keep doing that you’re guaranteed to get there. And so that’s a nice point for us to finish the main part of the interview on Andrew. So, where can people watch your Netflix series is on Netflix in the UK?

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, on Netflix in the UK. So, to show people about my Netflix journey. I grew up in the UK, so I’m of Nigerian descent. So born and raised in the UK, my parents are from Nigeria. And that is one in my eyes, growing up in my household. There’s a lot of comedy because my parents didn’t understand British culture, I didn’t understand Nigerian culture. And as I got older, I thought to myself, why is there not a show that represents my upbringing and can share that with the world. So, I decided to leave banking, raise some money and put all my time and energy into making this TV show. And through ups and downs, through a lot of rejections, through a lot of disappointments, we were finally able, two years ago sell the series to Netflix. So, it’s called Meet the Adebanjos, and it has over 50 episodes. So, feel free to go and enjoy on Netflix.

James Curran: Excellent. And I will link those in the show notes at graduatejobpodcast.com/dating. So, the final question before we move on to the weekly staple questions. So, Andrew, your background is in investment banking, and you’ve worked in the city and with RARE recruitment, you help recruit graduates into the city? What advice would you give people who are looking for a job in the city?

Andrew Osayemi: My main advice I would give is that you have to be tough, you have to be resilient, you have to have thick skin. While working in the city is a lot of pressure, you’ve got a lot of people that are high strung, very determined, full of energy and will do whatever it takes to win. So, if you’re going into that environment, you have to be the same, you have to be tough, you have to be resilient, you will face challenges as everyone will because it’s such a tough industry. But if you have thick skin, and you’re resilient, and you’ve determined that you will win, it’s a hard job. So, a lot of hours, it takes a lot out of you. So be mentally prepared to be tough and resilient and you will do really well.

James Curran: And if you’ve got a strong enough reason why you want the job, then it’ll be enough to see you through all the difficulties and the hardship and the long hours and whatever else you might face, trying to get a job. But yes, if you’ve got a strong enough reason why it will see you through. So, Andrew, let’s move on to our weekly staple questions. So, question number one, what one book would you recommend that listeners should read?

Andrew Osayemi: Good questions, the one book I recommend is probably the 10X Rule, I think it’s by a person called Grant Cardone is all about and it helped me in my life, it’s thinking 10 times bigger, on any goal that you have that you’re currently thinking about. And what I mean by that is, say, for example, you’re thinking about owning a business. Why not think about owning 10 businesses? Say, for example, you’re thinking about setting up a business, or you’re setting up a charity, that deals with the UK, why not think about a charity that deals with tackling the problems of the world. So, it’s about opening your mindset to think bigger. And it helped me along my life’s journey around how to think bigger and not to think small. So, the 10X Rule by Grant Cardone is a good book to read.

James Curran: Excellent. And we talked earlier about energy. And if you like audiobooks, then definitely check out, because Grant Cardone does his own audiobook, and he is a high-energy individual. So definitely one to check out there. So, I will link that in the show notes at graduatejobpodcast.com/dating. And next question, then Andrew, what one website or internet resource would you point listeners towards?

Andrew Osayemi: If this is for graduates, I think that the best one, and it’s going to sound a bit boring and cliche. It’s probably BBC business. It gives you an overview of what’s going on in the world, in the economy and corporate life. Just so that you have the stuff to talk about when you go in for an interview, like staying up to date with what’s going on in current affairs, and in the business, the world will help you or make you more commercial or improve your commercial awareness. So just bbc.co.uk I think is a great place to stay up to date with.

James Curran: A good tip there and commercial awareness is key, especially if you’re going into the city if you’re going for a career in law. Commercial awareness is something that they will make sure that you are well versed on, so excellent tip. And the final question today, Andrew, what one tip would you give listeners that they can implement today to help them on their job search?

Andrew Osayemi: One tip I would give is, join an organization called Toastmasters. Toastmasters is all about improving your public speaking, if there’s anything that you could do, to improve your chances is if you get better at communicating if you get better at public speaking, that you will get a job. What holds a lot of people back is the fact that they can’t articulate, they can’t communicate, and they can’t express, how good they are and is mainly because is probably they just don’t practice. People just think you’re just going to get better at it.

But I was faced with the same situation a few years ago, where I was going out to do business pitches, and I just fell flat. I felt I wasn’t able to communicate. I joined Toastmasters which is a public speaking organization. And I think it cost four pounds a month, really cheap that drastically improved my communication skills. So yes, if there’s one tip, join Toastmasters or any public speaking organization and you will get better, and you’ll get your dream job.

James Curran: That’s great advice. And a tip, if you improve your public speaking skills, it’s something that is going to stay with you throughout your entire life. And yes, it will help you more than you will know especially as you go for graduate jobs when you have to do a presentation. And you have no nerves because you’ve been adept at speaking in front of lots of people speaking in front of one person is not going to hold any fear at all. So that is excellent advice, Andrew. So, thank you so much for appearing on the Graduate Job Podcast today. Andrew, what is the best way that people can get in touch with you in the work that you do?

Andrew Osayemi: Yes, no, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. If you want to get in touch with me, the best way is on LinkedIn. Just search Andrew Osayemi on LinkedIn. I’m always on there. And I am happy to talk, happy to give you advice and my message to you is just keep at it. I know it is with COVID and everything going on in the market is tough. But if you utilize what we talked about today, you will be in the best chance or the best place possible to get your dream job.

James Curran: Andrew, thank you so much for being on the show.

Andrew Osayemi: Thank you so much, James.

James: Many thanks to Andrew for his time today, a fun episode and a really inspiring guy. He set himself the goal of a career in investment banking, and did it, then a complete change of direction of creating his own TV show and selling it to Netflix and he did that as well. Amazing, and just goes to show what you can achieve when you believe in yourself and work hard. And I’m hoping to get him back on the show to discuss his current venture RARE recruitment who work with companies to help them attract high achieving graduate talent from diverse and social mobility backgrounds, so stay tuned for that one. And again as a reminder, links to everything we discussed today including a full transcript at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/dating.

As a reminder if you are serious about getting a graduate job, you still have time to get yourself onto the How To Get a Graduate Job course. The course takes you through everything you need to know and do to get on a graduate scheme. It covers all of the different stages, from getting ready to apply for graduate schemes, from the CV, cover letter, online applications, recorded video interviews, assessment centres, negotiating offers, dealing with rejection and much much more. It’s got 14 hours of video content where I take you through everything you need to know and to do. It’s got handouts galore, cheatsheets, example CVs and cover letters, it comes with a private Facebook group for just you, me and the other course members and also weekly webinars where we go through different topics every week. If you want to get a graduate job, this is the course you need! And for the month of August I’m offering a special offer, buy before the 31st of August and get 5 hours of one on one coaching with me worth £375. 5 hours to spend how you want, we could do 5 hours of recorded video practice, or spend it on your CV, getting you ready for the assessment centre, it’s entirely up to you. But this special offer is only good till midnight on the 31st of August so don’t delay. Go to howtogetagraduatejob.com and sign up now. You won’t regret it. So, episode 120 done, I hope you enjoyed the episode today, but more importantly, I hope you use it and apply it. See you next week.