Episode 71 – Career Coach: How to plan your career with Corinne Mills

April 24, 2018 Podcast

A warm welcome to the 71st episode of the Graduate Job Podcast, the UK’s most popular careers and jobs podcast. The sun might be shining in London, but it’s no excuse not to be thinking about getting a graduate job. And this week as always we have an amazing guest who can help you find that job of your dreams. Coming on the show for the second time, a true careers expert who you will have seen on the news, in the papers, on the bookshelves, and back on the show, yes Corinne Mills author of many brilliant careers books, including her new book ‘Career Coach: How to plan your career and land your perfect job’. In this episode we delve into Corinne’s new book, exploring some of my favourite chapters which I know will help you as search for a graduate job. Amongst other things we cover top career blockers that might be holding you back and how to overcome them, such as concerns about not having the right skills or qualifications, not having the confidence, or worries about standing out. We discuss making tough decisions in your graduate job search because at some point you’re going to have to make some, we cover the best ways to research companies, we delve into the topic and importance of values, and we also touch upon how drawing a picture of your world can help you find a graduate job, yep, you heard me right. It’s a wide-ranging interview and we cover a load of different topics and I know you will enjoy it just as much as I did. As always all links and a full transcript can be found in the show notes at graduatejobpodcast.com/careercoach.  From there you will also find links to all of the other 70 episodes which cover every aspect of getting a graduate job, from help with interviews, assessment centres, to specific companies, to finding a job you love. Check them out and you won’t go far wrong.

One question that did come up over the last 2 weeks from Tom was on the best to subscribe to the show. Well Tom, check out http://www.graduatejobpodcast.com/subscribe which links to how to subscribe on Itunes, Spotify, Youtube, and by email. So something for everyone there.

And don’t forget to check out today’s sponsor who are our friends over at CareerGym.com. Career Gym is the number one place for you to undertake all of your psychometric tests which you will face when you apply for a graduate job. No matter what graduate job you apply for you’re going to have to face some type of verbal reasoning, situational judgment, and working style tests. You can practice these at CareerGym.com. Use code GJP to get 20% off all of their tests!

You can download the podcast to your computer or listen to it here on the blog. Additionally, you can subscribe via iTunes, Spotify or Stitcher radio.

MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:

  • Some of the common career blockers holding people back from their dream graduate job, such as;
    • How to get over your fear of failure
    • How to get over your fear of not standing out when you apply for a graduate job
    • How to get over your fear of not having the confidence
    • How to get over the blocker of not having the skills or qualifications
  • How drawing a picture of your world can help you find your dream graduate job
  • Why as a graduate you need to be thinking about your values and to link these to the companies you should be applying to
  • How to make tough decisions in your job search
  • Why you need to go all-in with your applications to companies, and not hold back

SELECTED LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Transcript- Episode 71 – Career Coach: How to plan your career with Corinne Mills

Announcer: Welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, your home for weekly information and inspiration to help you get the graduate job of your dreams.

James: Hello and welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, with your host James Curran. The Graduate Job Podcast is your home for all things related to helping you on your journey to finding that amazing job. Each episode I bring together the best minds in the industry, speaking to leading authors, entrepreneurs, coaches and bloggers who bring decades of experience into a byte size weekly 30 minute show. Put simply, this is the show I wish I had a decade ago when I graduated. 

A big hello to you from a sunny London for the 71st edition of the Graduate Job Podcast, the UKs Number 1 careers podcast. Thanks to everyone who has been in touch since last week’s episode with Korin Grant and Tristam Hooley. Don’t forget you still have time to enter the prize draw to win a copy of their excellent book, simply email me at hello@graduatejobpodcast.com. Also a big congratulations to listen Yuqing from Canada. Sharp eared listeners might remember Yuqing got in touch last year as she was looking to apply to work in the UK from Canada, and was looking for advice. That was the inspiration for episode 62 on how to apply for a graduate job in a different country, and I’m pleased to say that Yuqing followed that advice and has bagged herself her dream job here in London. Well done Yuqing! So if you have any queries or jobsearch questions drop me a line at hello@graduatejobpodcast.com and I’ll see what I can do. So, moving onto the episode in hand, and boy do we have a treat for you today, coming on the show for the second time, a true careers expert who you will have seen on the news, in the papers, on the book shelves, and back on the show, yes Corinne Mills author of many brilliant careers books, including her new book ‘Career Coach: How to plan your career and land your perfect job’. In this episode we delve into Corinne’s new book, exploring some of my favourite chapters which I know will help you as search for a graduate job. Amongst other things we cover top career blockers that might be holding you back and how to overcome them, such as concerns about not having the right skills or qualifications, not having the confidence, or worries about standing out. We discuss about making tough decisions in your graduate jobsearch, because you will have to make some, we cover the best ways to research companies, we delve into the topic and importance of values, and we also touch upon how drawing a picture of your world can help you find a graduate job, yep, you heard me right. It’s a wide ranging interview and we cover a load of different topics and I know you will enjoy it just as much as I did. As always all links, and a full transcript can be found in the shownotes at graduatejobpodcast.com/careercoach.  From there you will also find links to all of the other 70 episodes which cover every aspect of getting a graduate job, from help with interviews, assessment centres, to specific companies, to finding a job you love. Check them out and you won’t go far wrong.

One question that did come up over the last 2 weeks from Tom was on the best to subscribe to the show. When Tom, check out http://www.graduatejobpodcast.com/subscribe which links to how to subscribe on Itunes, Spotify, Youtube, and by email. So something for everyone there.

And just before we get to Corinne let’s have a little message from today’s sponsor who are our friends over at CareerGym.com. Career Gym is the number one place for you to undertake all of your psychometric tests which you will face when you apply for a graduate job. No matter what graduate job you apply for you’re going to have to face some type of verbal reasoning, situational judgment, and working style tests. You can practice these at CareerGym.com, as well as numerical, and abstract reasoning tests. They are all produced by testing experts, and exactly the same as the ones you will see in the real graduate job tests. You can just practice them as you want, or you can do them in exam mode, under time pressure, and they come all with detailed explanations and solutions, and you can track your progress and see how you compare against your peers.

Now it’s never too early to start revising for psychometric tests, as you might not get much notice before the test so you want to make sure that you’re ready to go. If you’re applying for a graduate job will have to do them, so pull your finger out now and start revising straight away to make sure you don’t fall at this first hurdle. I’ve been recommending this site for years to the clients I coach and it comes very highly recommended. What’s even better is if you use the code GJP, you will get 20% off of all of their tests. You can’t say fairer than that. So, head over to http://www.CareerGym.com that’s CareerGym.com and use the code GJP to get 20% off and start practicing today.  Now, on with the show.

James:  I am very pleased to welcome back to the show, a lady who needs no introduction, you might have seen her on TV on Sky news, BBC or CNN, or read her in The Guardian or The Daily Telegraph, or read one of her best selling books like ‘You’re hired! How to write a brilliant CV’ or ‘Career Coach: How to plan your career and land your perfect job’ and of course you will have heard her on episode 24 on The Graduate Job Podcast on how to sell yourself effectively, Corinne Mills, welcome back to the show.

Corinne:  Hello James, what a fantastic introduction, thank you very much!

James:  No problem Corinne, it’s amazing. It’s been over two years since you were last on the show, so how have you been over that time?

Corinne:  Yes, very good. It’s been an interesting year all round for everyone I think; but I’m really pleased to have developed this new book, the new Career Coach book, that’s taken an awful lot of my time but in the meantime, I’ve also been seeing lots of coaching clients and everyone has an interesting story and an interesting challenge and a lot of success. It’s been a very positive two years, even if politically there has been a lot of uncertainty around.

James:  There certainly has and today we are going to be talking about the latest addition to your new book ‘Career Coach: How to plan your career and land your perfect job’. It’s been time well invested, it really is a brilliant book. So starting at the beginning Corinne, in one of the early chapters in the book you describe an exercise which I really liked because I am quite a visual person, which was drawing a picture of their world. Can you talk us through what this is and why this could be useful for graduates looking for their first graduate job?

Corinne:  Now I have included this activity, sometimes I do it in a workshop, sometimes I do it when I am coaching people on a one-to-one, and I get people to draw a picture of their world and their career as they see it now. People look at me like I have gone mad, ‘what is she asking me to do this for?!’ but you can put anything down there at all. You can put people, places, how you’re feeling, metaphors; really it’s a very blank canvas to put anything down on there that feels important to you. It’s not about drawing, by any means, I can’t draw, I can only draw stick people and squiggles. But what is quite profound about what comes out as a result is that you see a psychological snapshot of where people are at the moment because what gets expressed in people’s pictures most often is their frustration, uncertainty. It may reveal that there are some things that they are really happy with and really enjoy and want to do more of, but there are other things that are really worrying them. And quite often the things that worrying them seem disproportionately large on their photo, so it’s actually a very revealing picture. What’s useful about that for career coaching or when you are thinking about coaching is that you can see what is taking your mental energy at the moment, as well as the things that you can do to remedy that. As a kind of a stocktake you can talk practically about ‘this is my career situation at the moment, I’m working on this’ or ‘I’m struggling to get this job’ or whatever, but it is also very useful to know just how you are feeling, how confident you’re feeling as well, that’s an important part to take into consideration.

James:  Yeah, and what would go into the picture? Is it just anything people are feeling at the time, in terms of getting it down?

Corinne:  So, people might put their place of work, they might put their boss, they might put the commute to work, they might put metaphors, they may put a staircase with a glass ceiling, if they want to work outdoors because they are fed up of working indoors they might put the open countryside because that’s the thing that really attracts them whereas they represent feeling very cramped in the office that they are in, they might represent conflict, they may have people fighting with each other, or a lack of money; any of those things, it’s really diverse. Sometimes people just draw squiggles and you can’t see what it means at all, but the meaning behind that, when they talk to you about what that represents is really heartfelt and is really deeply rooted. I think as a career coach what you are doing when people think about their career, is you are looking at the practical situation, but there is also something about helping people get into the right psychological frame of mind to make the move, to put themselves forward, to bring their best ‘A’ game to an interview. So I think just taking stock at the moment and seeing where people are, where people’s confidence levels are is always really helpful.

James:  I’ve found that in workshops I have run before, often people might be quite sceptical about doing it in the beginning, but once they have got over their skepticism and got involved they really do find the benefit from them. So with this example do you recommend that people do it and then come back to it a couple of days later to try and analyse it? Or get someone else to analyse it? Or analyse it themselves? What would you recommend?

Corinne:  I think being in the moment and spontaneously doing it, is important. But then, as you say, giving yourself some space to go back to it. One because you might want to add something, but two because it is quite often, quite profound, (I’ve used the word ‘profound’ a number of times, but that’s not an understatement), people can be really very struck by what they see represented on there, so I think the best thing is going back to it and seeing the raw emotion that you often can see in the picture. But I also think it is helpful to talk to somebody else about it, because the thing about the picture is that sometimes it’s hard to articulate what you are feeling or to find the words to express what is churning around in your head. Drawing a picture is a very shortcut way to access that and once you’ve got the picture down, you can then start to describe the picture and why you’ve done it that way. So it helps in the articulating, if you like, of how you’re feeling. So I think that if you have the opportunity to talk to somebody else, that might be a friend, a partner, a career coach, just to unleash that a little bit. As a say, it’s a very psychologically rooted exercise actually, so to relieve some of that psychological pressure that might have built up, particularly if you are in a challenging career situation, the picture is the way to open the gate. Talking about it to somebody else is a way to help vent it, and by venting it, it dissipates some of its energy and it’s more manageable.

James:  I really like them, but for people, like I mentioned, who might be feeling a bit sceptical about doing them what recommendation would you give to them as to why they should give it a go, put their skepticism to the side for half an hour and just really get stuck in?

Corinne:  I think that, nobody is forced to do the exercise and some people are less visual than others and again, some people might have dyspraxia and so I understand all of those concerns; but I think if they can give it a try, just go with it, they don’t have to show anyone else it. The purpose and meaning is for them. But I think if they give themselves to it then they will find something that is meaningful about it. But there is no point doing it half-hearted, just doing a mini doodle and saying you’ve done the exercise, because whether you are working with a career coach, or working through this book ‘Career Coach’, there isn’t any point unless you’re not going to give it your all, there is no point doing this superficially. So I would say just go for it, just try it, try it properly, and see what comes out.

James:  And we have talked about the book, so links to the book and a full transcript will be available with the show notes at thegraduatejobpodcast.com/careercoach. So Corinne, moving on to chapter four in the book where you talk about values and you have a values questionnaire in there; as a new graduate starting out why do you think it is important for people to spend a bit of time thinking about what their values are?

Corinne:  Because there are so many permutations of different roles you could do, different organisational structures, that it is pretty mind boggling. I think that if you have a clear sense of what is important to you and finding an organisation that is more likely to align to that, you’re probably going to be more successful, you’re probably going to be more engaged in the job, you are probably going to do better. I think when you are a graduate and it is your first or second job, the first job you go to probably isn’t going to be the last job you ever have and you learn as you go along. But I think if things are comparable with what is important to you and then you can build on that. I just think you are more likely to have a more satisfying career experience.

James:  I completely agree and it is something, in my experience, that people tend to overlook, because if you don’t think about your values and what is going to drive you and make you happy at the beginning of your career, then it does sometimes cause troubles further down the line. It is easier to do it at the beginning rather than when you get to 30 or 40 and finding you are in a job that you are not particularly happy with.

Corinne:  I talk to a lot of graduates who feel like there is a mishmash between…and also, your values, particularly at this age, are also ones that you have kind of inherited from family, your peers, you’re still evolving and thinking about your own set of values. It might be a value about ‘its really important to go to university’, ‘you’ve got to have this kind of professional career’, ‘you’ve got to follow this certain path’ and these are things that you have inherited as you have grown up. But actually going into the world of work, they are not always expressive of who you really are. Maybe it was really important that you did an engineering degree or accountancy or management consultancy or work for international development as a degree. Earlier in your career, because it felt like values that were the kind of career you wanted. But actually sometimes the experience of working in those kind of roles, doesn’t quite match who you are. Maybe you want to work in somewhere that is more commercial or more charitable or somewhere that is more collaborative or more teamwork orientated rather than hierarchical. But I think the book is trying to ask those questions to help you really think for yourself; my identity is evolving, those things might have been true for me in the past, but what is true for me going forward, at this point in time what are my key priorities and that can definitely help in your targeting of the right roles and organisations for you to work for.

James:  Speaking about those organisations then, once you have thought about the list, and there is a brilliant list in the book of all the types of values, how as a new graduate can you begin to link them to a new job which you’ve probably never done, so you are not too sure if those values are actually going to be in the job that you are applying for. How can they start to put those two things together?

Corinne:  I think what the book does is raise awareness of what you want, but also what to look for in an organisation, so I think it enables you to ask the right questions or look for the right things. So for instance, you can often tell about an organisations culture by just looking at their website. So the words, I mean yes there is marketing spiel that is going on, but the way in which they describe themselves, the organisations self perception. It’ll give you some clues, does it want to be an innovator, is it big up on corporate social responsibility, is there something about being a meritocracy, just in the way it describes those you can pick up some clues. Another thing I always say is to look at glassdoor.com where you can find out more about the cultures behind the scenes. Also talk to people who work there or who are supplied to it so you get a bit of an inside track, but I think the important thing is that once you are alert to the clues, you cant stop seeing them…(laughing), they are there, you just take everything at face value.

James:  Yeah, I encourage those I coached to make a really big effort to speak to those at the company, just in an effort to get the more honest view, and it helps them to impress going through the different application stages and to show that they have put the effort in to speak to these people. Now Glass Door is another really good website, maybe just regard the positive and disregard the super negative people who have an axe to grind and the people in the middle probably give you a fair representation of what the corporate culture is like there.

Corinne:  I think it is also very powerful, if you are ever at an interview and asked and you can genuinely say that you have looked at the organisation and looked at the values and the way that you operate, I like the way that you do this, I like the way that it is very team orientated, I like working in a team…that comes across really well. When you’ve done your research, one you’re more realistic, and two you’re showing that you actively made a decision to apply to this particular company because you feel it’s a good match and employers will really like that.

James:  That’s a brilliant idea and I know when I have been on the other side of the interviewing fence I can count on one hand the number of times people have gone to that level of thinking about the role that they are applying for and it really impressed us, it really impresses you, puts them in really good light. Moving on then Corinne, another one of my favourite chapters was chapter 17 on making decisions, because at some point listeners, you are going to be faced with making some tough job search decisions as job offers tend to be like buses, you tend to get nothing and then they all come along at once. Corinne could you maybe talk us through some of the tips you have for effective decision making in the job process?

Corinne:  So I think that you need some decision criteria to help you make decisions. I think quite often people will go on gut instinct or quite frankly because that’s the only job that’s available which can make it a very easy decision, that’s the only thing on the table so I’ll take it, but again ahead of time, and think this is what the book is trying to make you do is to really make sure you have all your ducks in a row, so you’ve got that decision criteria to start off. Yes that will be values, but also the skills that you want to gain, it will be practical things like how much money do you need, we know there is no upper limit but also you need to get paid, it might be about the commute, it might be about other pragmatic things, it might be about work/life balance, it might be about other things like fitting with your hobby in the evening, it might be about getting some funding to do some vocational training, it might be about getting some support towards a professional career path, whatever is important to you, you need to have thought those things through in advance. So you’ve got in theory a 10 point decision criteria list and then you are comparing the offers that you have got against those. Now it might be that you cant get a tick on all ten of those things, you might need to comprise on a few, but I think if you’ve got a sense of what is important to you, then that decision is going to be easier. You can do pros and cons lists but I would say particularly at the earlier stages of your career that it’s better to be in a role than not. So if the choice is between, even if it not a perfect role, if the choice is to do something for now while you look for something else, I think that is probably quite a good move, because it can help give you leverage for your next role to get some experience, as no job experience or career experience is ever wasted, you’ll always be able to use it at some point in your career and refer back to what you did. So have some clear career criteria and you may need to compromise but I think if you are certainly choosing between options then that will help guide you, as to which one to take.

James:  That’s a great point, and as you said doing something is always better than doing nothing. As you said having that goal in mind in the beginning, which is why you need to think at the very beginning what your values are and what your goals are so that later down the lie you have something to refer to so you know if you’re headed towards the right path and where you want to be going.

Corinne:  I think another thing that does, that decision criteria, is it opens up other opportunities because quite often people might think ‘I want to into investment banking’ or ‘management consultancy’ or ‘I want to work for a charity sector’ and they can be quite rigid about job titles or organisations. Whereas if you have some sort of decision criteria and perhaps we will look at the charitable front, perhaps you want to do something that helps benefit society, well actually there is lots of different routes to do that. Yes it could be charity, or it could be governmental, it could be apart of a corporate social responsibility, it could be going into clinical NHS type work, that decision criteria could open up way more possibilities than if you looked for work with much more narrower job titles.

James:  I completely agree with that, that’s a really good point. So the next chapter in the book is another one of my favourites, I have quite a few favourites today, looks at common career blockers people might have and I know that, to be honest, I have faced quite a lot of these myself (laughing). If we look at a few common ones that listeners might be feeling when they are looking for a graduate job. So number one ‘I am worried that if I try and fail, I will look stupid’. What would be your recommendations here?

Corinne:  I think that most people feel like that, don’t they, they are worried about failing. The thing is, what is the upshot of failing, what is the worst case scenario if you fail. Alright, so you don’t get the job, right well just apply for something else. Actually the worst case scenario for failing is really not at all catastrophic. If you do take a job and it doesn’t work out, then you find yourself another job. The problem is, if you get too worried about the failure bit, then you don’t try and that’s the worst thing. I come across an awful lot of people who are stuck in miserable situations because they might try, but they try half-heartedly to get themselves out of that situation. So I think in some respects you need to be prepared for failure, you’re not going to get every job you are going to apply for, it is not going to happen. But the more whole-heartedly you go after something the more effort you put in, the more likely you are to succeed.

James:  I completely agree and you see this with peoples graduate job applications, instead of putting the time and effort in and focusing on five companies, they’ll do a scatter gun approach and apply to twenty and then wonder why they get rejected from twenty. As we talked about at the very beginning about the exercise with drawing down were they currently feel they are, unless you are going to do it properly and put 100% effort in, there’s no point in doing it.

Corinne:  Nobody likes being rejected, it’s horrible but it is a job market, it is competition. I think you do have to accept that rejection probably goes with the territory but that’s not a reflection of you and your capabilities. That’s not saying ‘you are rubbish’, what it is saying is either it wasn’t the right job for you, you didn’t do a good enough application and perhaps you end to try some other strategies, so you need to creatively problem solve that but don’t think it is just because you are rubbish, it is just that you need some other tactics.

James:  Yep, the next blocker then, is it such a competitive graduate job market, there is no way I am going to stand out.

Corinne:  I think, well it is competitive, it is always going to be competitive. You can stand out and actually there are some, I think, fairly common sense practical things you can do, which by themselves will help you stand out, and these are not just grads, these are more mature candidates as well, who will apply for jobs not really knowing what these jobs really entail, they are not a good fit. So either they don’t fit the selection criteria, they haven’t quite grasped what is required, and they have sent out almost a generic CV or application. Quite frankly that is going to get rid of about 90% of candidates who fall into that sphere, so to be in the top 10% who get more consideration make sure it is the right job for you, you can properly fit the selection criteria and you have shown you have done your research. I think the other thing is simple things like diligence in the way that you fill in your application or CV. We have done this a couple of times at Career Personal Management, we have done a CV survey and we have judged hundreds and hundreds of CVs and thought just on their own terms, would they be likely to be considered for shortlisting? Nine out of ten had spelling errors or errors in the format, or the language wasn’t well expressed.. nine out of ten! So you only have to do a few things right to already be ahead of the crowd and to stand more chance.

James:  I speak to quite a few graduate recruiters about that in graduate schemes on the podcast and speaking offline to them when we are not recording and just asking them about where people fall out of the process and you get ones who say ‘we get 12,000 people apply for maybe 50 places’ and you tell people that and they think ‘that’s so many people, there is no chance of me getting it’ but when you speak to the actual recruiters and they say ‘yes, we get 12,000 applications but 3,000 people won’t give us all the information we need on the online application form, so straight away 3,000 people have gone//

Corinne:  //Yeah

James:  and then as you mentioned another 5,000 people have spelling mistakes in the application, so straight away they are gone as well. So immediately you are down to 6,000 people. Then maybe half the people will fail the online tests because they’ve not put the work in, so if you do a bit of work in the numerical and reasoning tests, then suddenly you are down to 3,000 people. Very quickly people get whittled away who put no effort in and can’t be bothered. So if you can put that effort in, in the beginning then straight away you’ll be in that top 10% of applications. You’ve gone from 50 out of 12,000, to 50 out of 1,000 which is a lot more manageable.

Corinne:  I think you get brownie points and for things like doing a covering letter. Quite often when you are doing applications you upload your CV for a job, it might say covering letter optional. But if you do a really nice covering letter, something over and above just here is my application, but why it is you want the job, you get brownie points. Again it can tip things in your favour, anything you can do that is going to get you extra brownie points, so that might be, I know when doing digital recruitment it can be hard to talk to a human being, but if there is somebody you can talk to, or have a dialogue with on Twitter, or maybe a Facebook page. So you’ve just got some dialogue going and it’s named recognition, I think that helps. I also think that if the front door is really jam packed with people trying to get in, as it is for many graduate schemes, then try and find a different door. Lots of people get jobs without graduate schemes, see if you can get another way in perhaps through some more junior jobs in that organisation, go do that for a year. Then when the graduate applications come around, you are already working in the organisation and say ‘I’d really like to be considered for the grad scheme’. Find other routes in.

James:  That’s excellent advice. Moving on to another blocker then, ‘I would love to, but I don’t have the confidence’.

Corinne:  I think confidence is a really key thing, because you are having to sell yourself to complete strangers who don’t know you and I think that is hard if you haven’t got much confidence. But I don’t think you have to be the most confident person in the world to get a good job, or to have a successful career. In fact I know many high achievers who I’d say have poor self confidence, but almost over compensate because they think they’re rubbish, they think they have to try harder than everyone else, but actually it has made them very very successful in their career. I think what you have to have though, is self belief that you can do a good job, for this particular job. So not everyone in the world can be a confident extrovert, but I think if you go into an interview you have to have self belief that you can do a good job in that role and you have to be able to say why you think you can. It doesn’t matter if you are a bit nervous saying that, you still have to say it and have to believe it. And I think they are more likely to take that at your estimation. But if you don’t have that belief, why should they believe you? They don’t know you from Adam, you come in, you look kind of good on paper, they are making summary judgements about you but if you don’t believe in yourself, they are not going to take a risk on you. So for people who do feel nervous, or who haven’t got confidence it is definitely worth working with a career coach to help them find the words, to help them find the tone that is going to convince, because you’re going to need that.

James:  Yep, as your quote from Henry Ford says in the book ‘if you think you can, or think you can’t, you’re right’

Corinne:  Absolutely, and we know there are a lot of people who have self-esteem issues which is not just about jobs but perhaps other aspects of their lives, and I think if you are somebody who has had challenges around that then I think some support, whether it’s counselling or therapeutic support, or self help groups or meditation, anything that can help you be present and be able to help build your confidence in what are very stressful situations. I get that, in terms of interviews, anything that you can do along those lines that are going to help you be in that better place i’d start doing that proactively now, because you absolutely will need it when it comes to your job searching.

James:  Yeah, I completely agree. Unfortunately Corinne, time is getting away with us, so maybe just one more blocker before we move on to our weekly staple questions. Final one then, ‘I know what I want to do, but I don’t have the skills, qualifications or others to compete in this area’

Corinne:  So the great thing is you have got a focus. So you are going to need to build on that shortfall. So it might be that it’s not always a role you can step into straight away, but you can inch your way towards it. So if you know what it is, find something that will take you in that direction and it might be a couple of moves, it might be four or five different moves until you get to where it is you want to go to. You have to be prepared to do some study, you may have to be prepared to do some unpaid work experience or extra reading, but I think it is also worth looking at places like LinkedIn to see people who are in the kind of roles that you are interested in and what their career path has been. You’ll see very often they are not conventional career paths to get there and it is quite interesting to see how other people have evolved their journey. Think of your career as an evolution, who you are, the job market, they are all changing, they are all evolving and yes, you need to be focused about where you are getting to, but it kind of evolves and it may take a few moves and lots of different activity in order to make that happen. But it never stops still, it’s always evolving.

James:  Yes and I think the word career comes from the French word ‘carrière’ which means path. So if you see it as a path, sometimes a winding path, that will help you as you come to those forks in the road and you go in directions you didn’t then you would be going in originally.

Corinne:  Yeah and I do think that is the whole thing about career paths, I do think it is becoming very different. I think talking about the winding road, I think it is much more likely zig zaggy type roads going forward. So I think it is much more likely in the future that people will have to do more lateral moves, they might go up, they might find some time self employed or in the gig economy there’s lots of different routes that people can take. So I think people think of the hierarchical career as an outdated model, what that gives you is much more agency to create the career that is right for you. But you are going to have to be proactive, you are probably going to have to work with several different organisations, rather than waiting for your organisation to promote you from within, I think that becomes less likely but it does mean that your thinking about taking risks, moving much more frequently taking much more control of your career, that’s definitely the way to go forward and the way to be successful in the future.

James:  As we said earlier, as long as you are doing something then you’ll be moving in the right direction. Corinne that is a lovey point to finish the main part of the interview on, so let’s move on to the weekly staple questions. I’ve got your previous answers in front of me, so I am looking forward to seeing what different ones you are going to give us this time. So maybe starting with the first question, what one book would you recommend that our listeners should read?

Corinne:  I think bearing in mind the whole you need to do something, it is all very well sitting and reflecting but you need to take action and be your own advert really. I think the book by Hermena Herbara on working identity.

I don’t agree with everything but I think her sense of how people evolve their careers and how they experiment and how the idea that there are lots of possible selves. There are lots of possible career routes that you could go down, I think that is really helpful and her ‘just go out and try stuff and see if it fits’ I think is very helpful.

James:  Brilliant, that is a new book for me and one I will definitely add to the reading list but Corinne is far too modest to recommend her book, so I will do it for her.

Listeners check out Corinne’s book ‘How to plan your career and land your perfect job’ which will be heavily linked to in the show notes over at GraduateJobPodcast.com/careercoach. Next question Corinne, what one website would you recommend our listeners should check out?

Corinne:  I do think The Guardian careers site is very good, lots of really good articles, lots of live Q&A, it’s very interactive. I think there is a lot of very good information material on there.

James:  If you check out that website you will see Corinne has often got articles on there, haven’t you Corinne?

Corinne:  I do! Myself as well as others but I think it is a very high quality resource.

James:  I completely agree, and final question Corinne, what one tip would you give listeners that they can implement today to help them on their job search?

Corinne:  Do something. Take action. Don’t just sit there, send off an application, get a CV sorted. Paralysis and some times when you are feeling stuck in your career then it can be difficult to take action, but I think you just need to start somewhere. Sorry this is two tips, but talk to people. Other people can be such a fantastic help and resource for you with ideas and suggestions, links, networks, all of those things. So do something and talk to somebody. James:  Brilliant advice and a lovely point for us to finish the interview on, Corinne it has been an absolute pleasure having you back on the show, what is the best way people can get in touch with you and the work that you do?

Corinne:  My website www.personalcareermanagement.com. I’m also on Twitter @CorinneMills. I’ll be delighted to hear from people.  James:  Corinne thank you for appearing on The Graduate Job Podcast again.

Corinne:  Pleasure James, speak to you soon.

James: There you go, many thanks to Corinne. She is a true professional and it’s always excellent to have her on the show. I hope you enjoyed the show and took a lot from it. For a deeper dive make sure you check out Corinne’s book, as you certainly won’t be disappointed. Buy a copy through the links to Amazon in the shownotes over at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/careercoach, and help to support the show, as Amazon pay a minute commission to me if you do so, it doesn’t cost you anything but helps to keep the lights on here with the show. As well as buying the book I do recommend you try the drawing exercise we mentioned. If you do try it, send a copy across to me and we can talk it through. Don’t forget as well to head on over to graduatejobpodcast.com/subscribe and sign up so that you don’t miss a thing. I mentioned last week that I’m developing a course on how to get a graduate job which will distil down all of my years coaching into one place, so subscribe to make sure you don’t miss the launch details for that. If you have any questions, need some help coaching or with an application, then do drop me a line, again at hello@graduatejobpodcast.com.

So that is just about everything. Do join me next week when I speak with Jason Swett, as we discuss how to get a graduate job in coding. It’s a cracker. All that remains to say is I hope you enjoyed the episode today, but more importantly, I hope you use it, and apply it. See you next week.

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