Episode 76 – How to deal with anxiety and stress as you apply for a graduate job

October 15, 2018 Podcast

Hello and welcome to the 76th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast. I’m back from my honeymoon with a cracker of an episode on an important topic which is often over looked, but one that impacts everyone in different ways who applies for a graduate job. This week we explore dealing with anxiety and stress as you look for your dream job, as I speak with anxiety expert Nick Elston. We delve into, how to deal with anxiety and stress as you apply for a graduate job. How to recognise the trigger points of anxiety and stress, and top techniques and hints for dealing with it. We discuss your internal monologue and why you need to listen to how you talk to yourself when you apply for a graduate job, the dangers and advantages of social media, and importance of breathing correctly, visualisation, and other top brain hacks to help you with your graduate job applications. No matter where you are on your graduate job search, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. As always, a full transcript of today’s show and all the links we discuss can be found over in the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/anxiety. From there you will also find links to all of the other 75 episodes which cover every aspect of getting a graduate job, from help with interviews, assessment centres, to specific companies, to finding a job you love. Check them out and you won’t go far wrong.

And don’t forget to check out today’s sponsor who are our friends over at CareerGym.com. Career Gym is the number one place for you to undertake all of your psychometric tests which you will face when you apply for a graduate job. No matter what graduate job you apply for you’re going to have to face some type of verbal reasoning, situational judgment, and working style tests. You can practice these at CareerGym.com. Use code GJP to get 20% off all of their tests!

MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:

  • How to deal with anxiety and stress as you apply for a graduate job
  • Techniques to de-stress before a job interview
  • Learn how to recognise the trigger points of anxiety when you apply for a graduate job
  • Discover why journalling is such a powerful tool to help you de-stress
  • Learn why talking about your job search anxiety is so useful
  • Discover why anxiety is healthy as you apply for graduate jobs
  • Why ‘managing today’ could be the secret to beating anxiety
  • Top brain hacks to help with your job applications

SELECTED LINKS INCLUDE:

  • Nick’s top website recommendations
  • CareerGym.com – Today’s sponsor, the number one place to practice all of the online tests you face when you apply for a graduate job. Use the code GJP to get 20% off all of their tests!

IF YOU LIKE THIS CHECK OUT THESE EPISODES

Transcript – Episode 76: How to deal with anxiety and stress as you apply for a graduate job

Announcer: Welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, your home for weekly information and inspiration to help you get the graduate job of your dreams.

James: Hello and welcome to the Graduate Job Podcast, with your host James Curran. The Graduate Job Podcast is your home for all things related to helping you on your journey to finding that amazing job. Each episode I bring together the best minds in the industry, speaking to leading authors, entrepreneurs, coaches and bloggers who bring decades of experience into a byte size weekly 30 minute-ish show. Put simply, this is the show I wish I had a decade ago when I graduated.

And welcome to the 76th episode of the Graduate Job Podcast, its been a few months since the last episode but I’ve had a good excuse, I’m just back from my honeymoon after having got married. It’s been a busy but amazing few months, and I’m back recharged, and raring to go with some brilliant episodes lined up for you with some of the biggest and best graduate schemes, and I mean huge companies, but more on that over the coming few weeks. This episode goes out in the middle of October, right at the beginning of the Milkround application process here in the UK, where you can start applying for a graduate job. An exciting time, but also it can be a very stressful time, as you start to get all of those online applications done. And in todays show we cover what is an often ignored part of applying for a graduate job, the anxiety and stress that goes along with it, and how to tackle it. I’m joined on the show by speaker and coach Nick Elston who shares his experiences with dealing with anxiety and stress. We delve into, how to deal with anxiety and stress as you apply for a graduate job. How to recognise the trigger points of anxiety and stress, and top techniques and hints for dealing with it. We discuss your internal monologue and why you need to listen to how you talk to yourself when you apply for a graduate job, the dangers and advantages of social media, and importance of breathing correctly, visualisation, and other top brain hacks to help you with your graduate job applications. No matter where you are on your graduate job search, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. As always, a full transcript of today’s show and all the links we discuss can be found over in the show notes at www.graduatejobpodcast.com/anxiety. From there you will also find links to all of the other 75 episodes which cover every aspect of getting a graduate job, from help with interviews, assessment centres, to specific companies, to finding a job you love. Check them out and you won’t go far wrong.

Before we start let’s have a little message from today’s sponsor who are who are our friends over at CareerGym.com. Now if I said to you, are you ready to do verbal and numerical reasoning tests for the job of your dreams tomorrow? I bet most of you would say no, well graduate employers don’t hang about, some of them give you as little as 2-3 days notice before you have to do the tests! So you need to make sure you are ready and willing to do the tests and start practicing now, which is where Career Gym comes in. Career Gym is the number one place for you to undertake all of your psychometric tests which you will face when you apply for a graduate job. No matter what graduate job you apply for you’re going to have to face some type of verbal and numerical reasoning, situational judgment, and working style tests. You can practice these at CareerGym.com, as well as numerical, and abstract reasoning tests. They are all produced by testing experts, and exactly the same as the ones you will see in the real graduate job tests. You can just practice them as you want, or you can do them in exam mode, under time pressure, and they come all with detailed explanations and solutions, and you can track your progress and see how you compare against your peers.

If you’re applying for a graduate job will have to do them, so pull your finger out now and start revising straight away to make sure you don’t fall at this first hurdle. I’ve been recommending this site for years to the clients I coach and it comes very highly recommended. What’s even better is if you use the code GJP, you will get 20% off of all of their tests. You can’t say fairer than that. So, head over to http://www.CareerGym.com that’s CareerGym.com and use the code GJP to get 20% off and start practicing today.  Now, on with the show.

James Curran: I’m very pleased to welcome a very special guest to the show today. He’s a motivational speaker and speaking coach with a unique story. Welcome, Nick Elston, to the Graduate Job Podcast.

Nick Elston: Hello, James. Thank you for having me.

James: Thank you for joining us, Nick, and it’s great to have you with us today. Would you like to introduce yourself properly and give listeners a taste of your unique journey to becoming a motivational speaker?

Nick: Okay, sure. No worries. Thank you for the opportunity. In a very small nutshell, I had very severe OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, as a child, and through childhood, and long story short, I’ve just turned 40. So, the kind of way of dealing with OCD at this time was seven weeks NHS counselling, and then you come out slightly more messed up when you went in.

What happened was it left you with a very heightened sense of anxiety. It dealt a lot with the compulsion, to be fair, but that kind of heightened anxiety is now called GAD, which is generalized anxiety disorder, and that actually is far more common, but less commonly known as a thing. The best way I can explain that is actually the daily catastrophization of events that most would see regular or normal.

So, it could be I could text my mom and say, “Hey mom, how are you?” and she doesn’t reply, and I would straight away go to, “She’s dead, she’s had an accident, we’ve fallen out,” and actually, the truth is she was out, so she never heard the phone go off, and never got back to me. But, it really does become a problem when you start to do this every single day of your life.

It was really the turning point for me was four years ago when I actually had a breakdown outside of a Premier Inn in Portishead. I’m a classy guy. I choose my breakdowns well. When, actually, the years of wearing that mask to the outside world being okay, being happy, being successful finally caught up with me, and I think you can only carry something for so long. You can only be something else, or someone else for so long before it does catch up on you.

And that kind of pressure, wearing a different mask for different things, and people out there will understand this because, usually, this is the bit of the talk where most heads are nodding. You try to be what other people want to see in you, or what other situations demand of you. So, if you are at uni, if you are going for jobs, whatever that might be, you try and be something else, and actually that takes you further away from what you are, and for me, that was the turning point.

Without getting too dark about this, it was either going to be something that consumed me or it was going to be something that I needed to let out. And for the Harry Potter fans out there, it’s the Boggle in the cupboard. The thing might have kept him for so long. Actually to me, as kind of surreal as a leap as it seemed, public speaking was my way of letting it out. And as in the Harry Potter films, when the Boggle’s got out of the cupboard, it doesn’t seem so bad.

We do this thing where we are afraid of showing our true selves, and we’re afraid of letting our guard down because we’re afraid of being judged, or rejected, or not liked. Actually, what happened from the first time I spoke about these things was quite the opposite. Everybody queued up to help. Everybody was there to, at least, give you a hug. I love hugs. It’s all good.

But, in terms of the support, often, that point onwards, what starts is a very selfish things, kind of a cheap therapy thing, and it definitely was. I couldn’t afford therapy at the time. That then changed, the dynamic change, when it started to help other people. Some people were saying, “I definitely get that. I resonate with that,” and people were saying that the signs of OCD in children I was talking about, they found that in their own children and they were being successfully treated because we are actually conditioned in our youth, and things are easily corrected compared to adulthood within that period of childhood.

Actually, that’s where it all started for me, and what started is something very, as I said, starting to speak and starting to public speak about this stuff, within three or four times of speaking, I started to feel better, I started to kind of recover, and my journey starts at that point. And in fact, towards today, in between my start of getting coaching on public speaking properly, and it got to September last year where I started doing this full-time. It became so popular and it was something else really following as a passion that I made the leap into doing this full-time, and here we are today.

James: And here we are today. Brilliant. That’s a really interesting journey there. I mean, I’ve heard of OCD, of course, but not heard of – is it GAD, you said?

Nick: Mm-hmm, generalized anxiety disorder.

James: As you mentioned, it’s not as common or widely known as OCD. Today, we’re going to explore the topic of anxiety as you search for a graduate job because it’s such a really stressful time. I know, from personal experience, just the pressure that you put on yourself, and you feel for the people as you’re looking for a job, you’ve come out of university, and people just expect you to walk into a job, and it’s just such a competitive job market.

It’s not that easy, and you see friends who might be getting jobs, or internships, and you can just feel the pressure, and the pressure of applications, and the pressure of job interviews. It just can be a really stressful time, and it’s a topic which I don’t think people really explore. That’s why I wanted to get you on the show so we could open up and just highlight that it is a stressful time and it’s okay to recognize the anxiety if you’re going through it.

Nick: Yeah, massively, and that whole process is full of pitfalls, and the things that I briefly touched over just now, all of those things: the expectations from families, the pressure you put on yourself, actually, a lot of the times, we’re not worried about the jobs we’re going for, what we’re trying to pass. We’re worried about, actually, what if. We’re trying to project and predict the future.

It’s that thing that Mark Twain says, “Some of the worst things in my life never actually happened.” We always jump to worst case scenario every time, and what I’ll be doing for throughout this interview is, actually, to give you a few tips and stuff, and a few tools that I’ve used to manage anxiety, and actually, to recognize what’s really going on, things that I’ve labelled as brain hacks.

Actually, the best way to do that, especially the assumption one is to start making a list of everything that you worry about, and everything you’re actually anxious about. It’s a really powerful exercise. But, most importantly, especially with GAD, because GAD, you will worry about everything, and I started making a worry journal, a list of everything I was worried about, and on day one, there was 128 entries. It was nuts.

But, most importantly, I made a note two weeks later to go back to day one and to see how many of those things actually happened. And the answer was 0. So, that was 128 things that I was worried about that day that I was carrying around with me and really beating myself about, which never actually happened, which when over a period of weeks and months, I was worried about thousands and tens of thousands of things that weren’t actually going to happen.

So, I think you need to start to actually prove yourself wrong. You need to convince yourself that things that you think are going to happen aren’t necessarily going to happen. And in the instance, like you said, if you’re going for exams, or degrees, or jobs, you are trying to predict an outcome either way. You put everything on it, and then you line yourself up for that full.

Or the other way, you think, “Actually, what’s the point in going for this? I’m not going to get it,” because actually, you’ve gone into that process prejudging it when you don’t know what’s going to happen. You’ve got just as much chance of getting a successful outcome as you have of getting a negative outcome. But, we always go for the negative.

James: I think that’s a really important one in the clients I coach. Often, when you speak to them initially and they talk about their dream jobs and what the graduate schemes that they’d really like, and you ask if they’ve applied, a lot of the time, the answer is no. It’s all, “I didn’t think I was going to get it. It’s too competitive, the questions are too hard,” and all the prevarications they put in the way to actually stop themselves from applying. Of course, you’re never going to get a job if you don’t apply for it. But, the fear, you can see the fear of, maybe, not getting it, or the fear of actually getting it. It holds them back from putting that application in in the first place.

Nick: There is, but also, if we look again at that thing about peer pressure and the pressure from family, and a lot of the times, self-imposed pressure, actually, when’s the last time you stopped to check why’d you want that job, why do you want that career? Have you really asked yourself if this is what you truly want?

Because, again, we go down that line of either going for an easier option or an option that’s been conditioned into us, when actually, at that point in your life, you’ve actually got a complete clean slate to do whatever you want to do. But, sometimes, we just don’t stop and think about what we actually want to do with what we’ve done. Does that make sense?

James: Yeah, that makes complete sense. You said, often, you can get conditioned so easily from a young age to — about your parents, whether it’s little Timmy wants to be a doctor, and you should be a doctor, or you should be an accountant, or you’re good at maths. You should do this, or you should do that, and people, in my experience, very rarely, do people take the time to stop and think, “What’s going to make me happy? What jobs are aligned with my actual values? What’s going to keep me motivated 5, 10 years down the line as opposed to something that my parents wanted me to do as a job?”

Nick: There’s definitely that, and there’s a case that I’ve just only found the career that I truly love, and it’s taken me 20-odd years of being in employment to find that. So, again, another lesson that I’ve learned along the way is that just because you choose to do something now doesn’t mean that’s it.

Again, we try to predict what’s going to happen for the next 5, 10 years, that kind of thing. Actually, it’s okay to change. It’s okay, actually. This could be good for now. But, again, it’s that anxiety thing creeps thing of, “What if this happens, and what about if I’m not happy in five years?” If you’re happy now, then that’s what you should be going for, and not trying to predict the outcome of things all the time. That’s a lot of anxiety that comes from those trigger points.

James: That’s a really good point, and if you’re moving forward, then you’ll always be learning something, you’ll always be developing your skills, and if you change path further down the line, it doesn’t matter. As long as you’re doing something, you’ll be going in the right direction.

Nick: Yeah, definitely. Again, sometimes, these kind of things — maybe it’s a reflective thing. I just don’t know, but you look back and actually you see these things that you really wanted at the time and it guided you onto something that was better. Again, we get caught in that catastrophization of things where, “If I don’t get this, my world’s ending.” It’s never that case, it’s never going to be that way because opportunities are always there. It’s just a case of tuning into those opportunities.

James: You mentioned earlier some of the trigger points that can kick off anxiety. Maybe starting with those just so people can recognize them if they do happen so they’ve got awareness that they might be becoming more stressed and anxious. What might those trigger points be?

Nick: I guess in terms of the trigger points is first you being in tune with how you feel, and that only really comes from trying to put yourself in a position of calm, just to calm your state down. So, a great exercise for that would be a breathing exercise. So, it’s very simply you breathe in through your nose for six seconds, you hold it for six seconds, and then breeze out through your mouth for six seconds, and that actually gives your brain more oxygen so you make great decisions, because bad choices are made through fear.

But, also if you are anxious, if you have an obsessive nature, then it takes away the focus from what you’re anxious about, and also the counting. And it’s then a case of knowing how you feel. So, if you’re starting to get the sweats, if you’ve got a tight stomach, if you’re starting to panic and get jumpy and jittery, if you’re shortness of breath for a start, lots of these things, these physical signs will indicate that you are anxious.

Also, how do certain situations make you feel, how do certain make you feel? We’ll start to listen to, actually, what things are starting to trigger your physical feelings, your physical symptoms of anxiety. Because only when you truly listen to yourself and you actually work out what’s pulling your strings. Does that make sense?

James: That makes complete sense, and just as you were doing the breathing exercises there, I just sensed a calmness that comes over you as you start to do them. It’s such a simple thing that’s self-active.

Nick: Yeah, it is. I think, along with journalling, I think journalling is really powerful. Old-school journalling, I think writing, pen on paper is very therapeutic. Whether it could be writing a worry journal, it could be another thing about gratitude, which I’ll go into in a second, but also things, putting down actually how you’re feeling now so you can look back and get to — it’s kind of like getting to know yourself. It’s getting to know what really — they’ll have different indicators and different triggers, but by keeping a note of these things, you’ll get to know how you feel in certain circumstances.

And another great brain hack as well, because a lot of people will get this as listening to this, if you go to bed and you’re worried about things, if it’s flying around your head, if your brain’s trying to tell you to remember something, it’s not your brain telling you to do it now. So, the best way to get rid of that is to get up, physically get up, write that on paper, go back to bed, and it’s gone. It’s a great brain hack for people that are struggling to sleep.

Actually, we all know sleep is very important, but also, if you’re in an anxious state, very difficult to achieve good quality sleep. So, that’s a really good brain hack as well for people to use.

James: I do like that one. That’s a good one. And would you recommend people talking about their anxiety and how they’re feeling?

Nick: Personally, for me, it was a real sliding doors moment. I appreciate, given the sensitivity of the subject, sometimes given the professional sensitivity, depending on what industry people are either going into or within at the time, I appreciate, sometimes, there is still, and there shouldn’t be, in my opinion, but there’s still a stigma or taboo. I speak at lots of different types of companies all over the place, and there are still professions which they find it hard to open up.

I would personally encourage people in that situation to do things like blogging anonymously, something which really just gets that out of you and into the world, because you can help people. We kind of think that we are unique in our own experiences and challenges, but that’s just not true. The most powerful thing for all of my journey, for all of this has been if you can help just one person that’s in the room or reading that at the same time, then that’s surely what it’s all about for me.

Of course, it’s now my business, which is fantastic, but that kind of real moral kickback, that still really works for me, that karma thing, that really works for me. So, I definitely encourage people to open up, but in a very safe environment to them. Because, again, I appreciate the sensitivity of it.

James: With the stereotypes, do you find that men tend to be worse at this than women?

Nick: Yes, in a very small nutshell. I think it’s not the case of worse. I think it’s more a case of slower to engage. So, again, with what I do, when I go to speak at banks, or law firms, whatever they may be, the men will be the one sat with their arms crossed, and as the talk goes on, their arms become uncrossed and more receptive to what you’re saying.

A lot of the reason that people get me in alongside their other wellbeing initiatives they’re doing is because, as a man, I’m brutally honest, as it’s been described, about my own experiences. So, it’s kind of like, “You show me yours if I’ll show you mine,” that kind of stuff, that you’re actually laying it all on the line, and actually, it’s the male engagement that they’re looking to increase.

And once I’ve done that and been inspecting people and come away, their engagement has increased massively from the male perspective. So, I think men are just as good as engaging on this, but slower to interact with that. That comes from social conditioning.

James: How common do you think anxiety is amongst the general population of one form or another?

Nick: Everyone gets it. Everyone has anxiety to different levels. I think that’s why, as a subject, it’s been very popular to talk about and for me to speak at events on. But, actually, it’s important to say that anxiety is healthy as well. It’s on two levels, really. Anxiety is your brain’s way of telling yourself that there’s a perceived danger ahead, so it’s a great warning system. It’s when it gets out of control when it becomes a problem.

So, if you have anxiety, the worst thing you can do is feel guilty, and beat yourself up, and stretch yourself out, because it compounds the issue. It’s healthy to have anxiety, it’s important.

Actually, I know, as a speaker, I am always anxious before I get up on stage, always anxious. Actually, I don’t want to lose that because it does make you perform. So, again, it’s channeling anxiety to help you perform, wherever that’ll be. Like you said, if you’re going through job applications, if you’re going through exams, if you’re going through an important day at work, some anxiety channeled the right way will help you perform. It gives you that adrenaline, it gives you that rush.

But, it’s also really important to recognize when it’s getting out of control, when you start to feel angry, and frustrated, and sad. There’s a real fine line between anxiety and depression, as well, and it’s rarely spoken about as one thing, and that’s something to be really mindful of as well, because anxiety makes you withdraw, it makes you switch off, it makes you close down, and actually if you stay in that state too long, that leads into depression as well. So, it’s something to be really aware of, I feel.

James: As you mentioned, having that adrenaline before that job interview just keeps you focused, helps you to perform at your best. So, it’s something that you want to channel.

Nick: It’s basically having a lion on a lead. It’s a powerful thing, but you do want to control it, and the breathing techniques help with that. It’s keeping it real works with that. So, again, it’s not assuming the outcome, it’s not assuming that people or companies are going to be a certain way, because at the end, they’re still people. And it’s not being afraid to be authentic, which again sounds quite fluffy, but it’s true.

The more of yourself that you show, the more people buy into that because they know exactly what they’re getting. There’s an argument to say if you’re not showing your true self, not only one day will you be found out about that, but also they won’t be buying into you. How do they know who they’re buying into if you’re not being yourself?

But, again, maybe that comes with age and experience, maybe. I’d quite happily go in now to — I had this last week, actually, where I was in a meeting with a huge globally renowned firm, and as a sales pitch, I actually said to them, “I still expect to get arrested every time I come off the stage because I’m just coming up, telling my story, and getting paid for it.” It just sounds really surreal.

They like the fact that I was like that because, actually, that’s what they’re going to be getting. I do get up on stage and speak to their teams. It’s that not afraid to be honest with them. Again, we try to polish and spin ourselves so much; we get out of control with it. You’re not giving the world to your true self.

James: Yeah, and that impostor syndrome just never goes away, does it?

Nick: No, definitely not. But, again, it’s one of those things that your internal narrative, what you tell yourself defines exactly who you are and how you see the world. For the impostor syndrome, usually, it’s what people have told you, “Who are you to do this?” or even yourself, “Who am I to do that?”

It’s interesting to start to listen to how you talk to yourself. If you say to yourself, “You are rubbish,” then that’s somebody else telling you and you’ve absorbed that. If you tell yourself that, “I am rubbish,” then that’s your confidence. That’s you telling yourself. So, it’s important to try and check how you speak to yourself and what intention you go forward with as well.

We all see the same world, we all see the different things, and actually it’s a case of honing in on the opportunities that are out there and really going for what you want. I mentioned, briefly just now, gratitude, which sounds a really hippie thing to say. But, actually, a lot of my success has come from being grateful for what I have now, and that sounds like a really fluffy thing, I do understand that.

But, the scientific term for this is called the “reticular activator”. Your brain looks to support your current state. So, if you are anxious, if you are afraid, if you are scared, your brain will look for opportunities to support that, unfortunately. So, if you’re walking down a dark alley with nobody around, you’ll see fear everywhere, you’ll see danger everywhere. If you feel strong, and happy, and confident, you won’t see those dangers. So, we all walk in the same world and see different things.

For me, again, another brain hack is to actually be very clear about what you want for your career, what you want from your life now. Not projecting anything into the future, what would you like now, and actually start to use things like positive affirmations, start to write down goals that you would like to achieve, and actually go forward with those in mind because your brain will look for opportunities to support that.

It’s neuro-linguistic programming, NLP, something that was introduced to me as part of my recovery process, and it’s the same thing as if I said to you guys now, “Red lorry, red lorry, red lorry, red lorry, red lorry,” the next time you see a red lorry, you’ll go straight back to this podcast for just a second because, actually, you are forming an emotional anchor to this, to listening to this and what we’re talking about today.

So, it’s a case of actually setting up positive anchors in your life, in your career, in what you’re doing every day, and replacing the narrative, which you’re telling yourself, “You’re just not good enough.” Your world can change just by changing how you speak to yourself.

James: That’s brilliant. I completely agree, and your brain is such a funny thing, and the things that you tell yourself in your internal monologue, you never say to anyone else. Just how critical you are to yourself, if that was your best friend you were talking to, you wouldn’t be just as critical with the things that you say, but you talk to yourself in a more critical than you would to other people.

Nick: Yeah, definitely. I think, also, if I can imagine a challenge for your listeners will be things like procrastination is things that you put off today gather more anxiety. So, it’s something that is another big anxiety trigger that, actually, if you put something off that you should be doing, and you get behind on that, that builds up like a tidal wave of anxiety, and it becomes heavier, and heavier, and scarier than it was before.

I always use the example when I’m talking about it, my wife asked me to paint our fences in May last year, and I hate DIY with a passion, and for me, it was such a big thing. I was going to get Nick Knowles do all this, or take a week off of work. The truth was, I did it in two hours in September, but by that point, I made it so horrible that I just hated everything about it, when actually if I would have gotten it done straight away, it was nothing. What we put off today, actually be very mindful that that can negatively impact your mental health.

James: And that’s so easy to do with job applications when you’ve got seven questions of 100 words each about different competencies, and you just say, “Oh, I can’t be bothered.” It’s easy to put them off and just for them to grow in size, and fear about doing them and getting the application in, it’s very easy to do.

Nick: Yeah, very easy to do, and I think a lot of what you’re trying to achieve is, by looking at what you’re going through at the time. So, if you’re going through a recruitment process, or an application process where there’s only certain things you can do, without trying to predict the outcome, is to actually be very clear about that. Is this all I can do today? Yeah, that’s all I can do today, and that’s all you can really focus on without thinking too far ahead, without trying to predict the outcome.

So, you actually start to bring your anxieties down into what you’re actually doing now. Again, the example that I use is going back a couple years ago. Luckily, by this point, I was already working on my own mental health and things. I actually found two lumps, and one lump where no lump should be, and another lump where only two lumps should be. I think that’s clean enough for this podcast. Is that alright?

Anyway, my point was the fact that how I used to deal with things before when I was struggling, when I had anxiety to a big extent was to mancave it, and apparently the female version is “she-shed”. So, you basically shut off the outside world and you write off your life to that perfect moment where you’re going to be fine, all clear, that kind of thing.

Actually, the point was that between the point I found the lumps and the all clear was 422 days. So, actually it’s 422 days I had to write off of life waiting for that perfect moment. Again, if you’re going through an application process and a recruitment process, if you start to write off your life until you wait for an outcome, “As soon as I get this job, I’ll do this,” it doesn’t happen that way, and actually, that could really consume your —

Anxiety, for me, is fear of the future, or regret from the past. Actually, if you take those two things out of it, all you can really manage is today. Actually, the good thing is that you can manage today. Anyone can manage today. If you made a goal of putting in 10 applications, and you’ve done those 10 applications, well done you. That’s amazing, and congratulate yourself, and go again tomorrow.

But, if you were starting to worry about the outcomes of those 10 things, you will build up a huge wave of anxiety.

James: That’s powerful stuff there. I really like that, Nick. We talked about the power of the brain. Maybe before we move on to the weekly staple questions, let’s head back to the brain hacks that you mentioned earlier in the show. Which other brain hacks would you recommend for people who might be going for a job interview, or assessment center, or just struggling with getting an application in?

Nick: I think you need to be very mindful of the things that take away your positive energy both physically and also mentally. So, in terms of it could be the people that you surround yourself with. That’s really important. I think it was Jim Rohn, the American sales motivational guy that actually said, “You’re the average of the five people who you surround yourself with.” Actually, I would extend that. It’s the people you see most often that you become the average of those people. You take the good, you take the bad.

So, be very careful where you’re immersing your energies in. And on that note as well with social media. I think it was Harvard that did a survey that said, “Between 18 and 29, the biggest anxiety trigger is social media. However, between 18 and 29-year-olds, the biggest form of positive community is social media,” which means actually, it’s not the platform. It’s what you choose to immerse yourself in.

So, if you are online trying to correct the internet, because everyone’s got an opinion, you really start to get that drain. Or, if you get a free minute and you’re checking your phone all the time, your attention can go, and actually, you will see things that you’re not happy with, that you don’t agree with, and it will take your attention, and it will take your positive energy from you just like that.

For the older guys like me, we always had that “keeping up with the Joneses” thing. Now, it’s called FOMO, fear of missing out. But, the problem you’ve got is you’re not comparing your lot against somebody else’s. Not the car, or the garden, or the house. You’re actually comparing their spun version of the truth online against your spun version of the truth online, because nobody really puts real life on Facebook, for example.

So, actually by getting yourself caught up in that, you can actually start to really get that drain. I’m not sure if you’ve ever felt that, James, but you can look at social media, and actually that can really take your energy, it can really zap it up.

James: Yeah, really easily, especially on Twitter, I find.

Nick: Exactly, and actually, what I found — I mean, I’ve spoken to universities before where people have actually replaced personal value and personal qualifications for likes, and shares, and retweets. Actually, somebody once said, “What’s the point in saying something if it doesn’t get retweeted?” It’s your personal value. I mean, that’s why you should say something in the first place.

I love social media myself. As you know, we met through social media, so it’s a fantastic tool, but just be very, very mindful of how that makes you feel. Even without going near the white light thing, if you weren’t light in sleep, it just does not work. So, try to avoid phones an hour before you go to bed, that kind of thing.

But, yeah I think just be very careful what takes your energy. You need to keep your energy high, you need to remain optimistic, and anything that affects that, you need to really take a look at if you really need any of that.

James: Super. And one final question. When I’ve done job interviews, and more recently, giving some best man speeches in front of large audiences, and then when you get up there on stage or in front of the panel, it’s almost like you feel your small movements become amplified. I feel like my hand’s shaking out of control, and you suddenly become really conscious like, “Oh no, my hand’s really shaking, everyone’s looking at my hand, and they’re going to see my hand really shaking,” and then actually, when you look back at the video, it’s barely noticeable that the hand is moving at all.

For people who suffer from things like that or somebody getting the sweats, what would you recommend for in the moment with dealing with anxiety.

Nick: Again, a nutshell approach to this, be clear on the messages. So, this is in advance of the talk you’re doing. Be very clear on the message you want to deliver and the way that you want to convey that. My personal take on this is try to put as much of you in that as possible, whether that be humor or whether that be your conversational tone.

And in this case of practicing, I would say, with every punctuation mark in there, leave two seconds, three seconds. And that sounds very slow and deliberate, but trust me, as you just said, when you play it back; it’s great, because how you speak is not how people hear you. They need that time to absorb what you’re seeing.

So, control your tone, control your breathing, and actually, as part of that, the pauses will allow you to breathe. Because, again, when you panic, when you get anxious when you’re talking, you breathe from your chest and not from the lower, and you really speed up and get quieter as well. So, it’s keeping the volume high, keeping the pace slower, and being very clear about the message you want to deliver.

If you feel confident enough, go from a script to note cards, and with one or two words, reminders on there about what you want to talk about. But, as you just said, it’s also important to remember two things: firstly, how you feel isn’t necessarily how it’s being received. So, if you’re nervous, if you’re anxious, they may not see that. And chances are, they probably won’t see that.

The other thing is if you forget to say something, unless it’s hugely, hugely important, they won’t know what you were going to say. So, it’s a case of sometimes we beat ourselves up too much, especially as a speaker. “Oh, I should have said that,” but then they don’t know that you were going to say that.

I think it’s all a case of being in control, and using the breathing exercises, using the silence, using tone, using the volume, use the pace to really control that. Actually, when you’ve gotten that end under control, it will come across as very professionally delivered.

James: Brilliant advice there. How important is practice for dealing with anxieties? Practice always makes perfect, but does it help in terms of you just keep on practicing, practicing, practicing?

Nick: Yes, both with speaking and also with just controlling anxiety in life and business, generally. I believe that true change comes from daily, consistent, incremental changes. So, it’s giving yourself the platform every day to give yourself the best chance of actually living a happy, fulfilled life on your terms for that day.

So, it could be things like using, as I said, gratitude. Before you go to bed, write down 10 of the things that you love most about the day, and it sounds really, really fluffy, I know, but it works, because you go to bed with a positive frame of mind, you rest well, and therefore you’re recharged for the day after.

When you get up, look at what you’ve got going on that day. If you’ve got a big interview, if you’ve got an exam, whatever you’ve got going on, visualize that going well. Feel that confidence that you have in yourself when you’re on your own, and then look to take that into the interview or the meeting, whatever you have.

Also, doing things like know what you love. I mean, when’s the last time you actually asked yourself, “What do you love to do?” because you need to know this stuff. If you’re feeling stressed, you need a positive distraction technique because there’s plenty of other distraction techniques which work, but are not healthy. I’ll call it drugs and stuff. But, actually positive distraction techniques, like things you love.

So, it could be music. Music’s amazing for that. Music can change your state immediately. Have the music you love on tap. By the way, if you’re a fan of Morrissey and the Smiths. So, it does work both ways. Actually, what I would say on that is the things that you love, don’t associate that to people. Don’t leave your happiness, don’t leave your state in control of other people, because people will fluctuate, people will let you down sometimes.

So, it’s important to have complete control of what you love. So, for me, I’ve got a little dog, we go out walking together. I like nature, I like switching off, turning off my tech for 30 minutes a day and just sitting down with a few breathing exercises. I love football, as we were chatting about just before I came on. Between 3 o’clock and 5 o’clock on a Saturday afternoon, trust me, I am nowhere else apart from fully immersed in that game, because that’s my switch-off. That’s what I love to do. So, get to know what you love to do and start to ask yourself these questions.

James: Great advice, and really, really brilliant advice, and as you said, “Little and often does win the way.”

Nick: It does, and I think somebody said it was 21 days to form a habit. I should really start referencing this stuff. 21 days to form a habit. Actually, for me, that’s true. If over 21 days, you were doing this constant positive reinforcement and getting to know how you feel, start to journal, start to really just get to know you again. Because, everyone’s so busy now, and overwhelmed with everything, and fear, and worry, and all this kind of stuff. Sometimes, you just need to pull that back in and just get to know yourself again. You all know what’s good for you and what’s not good for you, but only when you’re in a position of being in a really good place.

James: Excellent. I think that’s probably a good time for us to move on to our weekly staple questions. So, now Nick, putting you under pressure, we have a couple of questions you weren’t expecting. Question number 1, what one book would you recommend to our listeners that they should read?

Nick: Oh, great question. I would say I’m a big Terry Pratchett fan, so if you just want a light read, it’s anything by Terry Pratchett with Discworld series. Definitely do that. I think most of the development books I’ve read, I quite like Grant Cardone. He is an American sales motivational guy. For me, it’s taken the best of what he’s saying. If you actually watch his stuff online, he’s very in-your-face.

I love what he does, and actually, the advice he has about really putting all of your efforts in it, he has a 10X floor, so anything you want to do: your goals, your targets, you 10X it, and you go for it on the theory that if you aim for 10X higher than what you were aiming for before, even if you don’t hit it, you’ll get a lot higher than what you were aiming for before. So, anything by Grant Cardone is a good read, usually very energetic.

James: Yeah, and it’s funny you mention that. I’m currently listening to his audio book: Be Obsessed or Be Average. He’s very energetic. If you like your advice calm, then probably best to avoid Grant. But, check him out on YouTube. I’ll link to it in the show notes at GraduateJobPodcast.com/anxiety where you’ll be able to find a full transcript of everything that Nick and I have talked about today, as well as all the links to everything that we’ve discussed, and I’ll link in with Grant Cardone’s YouTube video. So, there’s lots of really good YouTube content on there.

Nick: Fantastic.

James: Moving on to the next question. Nick, which one website or internet resource would you recommend to listeners?

Nick: Wow, these are really good, good questions. So, the website I would recommend the most is TonyRobbins.com. Tony Robbins is somebody I’ve admired for a long time. I went to see his Unleash the Power Within seminar. Very intensive four-day, full-on, including the fire walk. Tony Robbins is a motivational speaker, an LP practitioner, lots of different things.

But, again, as with Grant Cardone, check him out on YouTube and stuff. He’s got a lot of resources and tools on his website, worth checking out, and actually secondly would be BradBurton.biz. So, Brad is somebody who’s been on your show before, I believe.

James: Yeah, back in episode, I think, 18 or 19, we had Brad on.

Nick: Brad, he’s a good friend of mine. He’s also my agent and mentor, so somebody I’m really close to, and he’s building up a great portfolio of stuff on his website on BradBurton.biz. So, both of those, I would definitely check out for motivational, personal development stuff.

James: Excellent, and as I mentioned, they’ll both be linked to in the show notes at GraduateJobPodcast.com/anxiety. Did you see Tony Robbins this year, or was it a previous year you saw?

Nick: No, it was last year at ExCeL in London. Again, an amazing experience. It was just phenomenal, really. It was unlike anything else I’ve done before.

James: I’ve luckily seen him twice now. I think I went the year before that, and then I think the year before that. So, listeners, highly recommend it if you can. Four days, as Nick mentioned, very intensive, but well worth doing, and you’ll probably look at things a lot differently after having been.

Nick: The thing actually is, again, it’s another part of getting to know yourself. From what we’ve been saying, James, it seems you’re the same kind of ilk as me that all these things you do along the way just helps really get to know yourself as what that’s all about. And I think Brad also does events called “Now What Live” around the country as well. Again, it’s more of a UK take on the personal development scene, and that’s become a really big thing as well.

James: I’ll definitely have to get myself along to see Brad in the flesh. And final question, Nick. What one tip can listeners implement today to help them on their job search?

Nick: I think it’s a case of being completely true to how you’re feeling. The one tip you’ve got is to try to keep control over how you are emotionally feeling and start to see things for what they factually are without trying to attach an outcome to it, without trying to attach too much hopes, maybe, even as well, and just going through that process without putting yourself through the guilt, and anger, and frustration, and the impatience, and all this kind of stuff. Just draw up a battle plan, know what you want to achieve, and go through it without attaching that emotion to it. I think, actually, this whole experience will be a lot more anxiety-free for you guys.

James: Powerful stuff today. Thank you so much for appearing on the Graduate Job Podcast. Nick, what’s the best way for people to get in touch with you and the work that you do?

Nick: Thanks, James. It’s my pleasure. So, the best way is to go to www.NickElston.com. That’s www.NickElston.com, N-I-C-K E-L-S-T-O-N.

James: Perfect. Thanks a lot, Nick. Much appreciated.

Nick: Thank you, James. Appreciate that.

 James: So listeners, there you go, Mr Nick Elston. Wasn’t that an interesting episode. Very different to my recent episodes but I hope that you took a lot from it. If you did enjoy it check out episode 34, ‘Overcoming fear in your search for a job, with Geoff Thompson’. If you have been struggling with your job search and it’s been getting you down I hope this episode helped. Remember that you aren’t alone, that applying for a graduate job is a stressful time. Use the hints and tips that Nick recommends and I know they will help. There is a full transcript of everything we discussed today over in the shownotes at www.GraduateJobPodcast.com/anxiety. Whilst you are there don’t forget to head on over to graduatejobpodcast.com/subscribe and sign up so that you don’t miss a thing, despite my best intentions I know I can be sporadic in getting episodes out to you, so it’s the best way to stay up to date of what I’m up to. I’m also developing a brilliant course on how to get a graduate job which will distil down all of my years coaching into one place, so subscribe to make sure you don’t miss the launch details for that. If you have any questions, need some help coaching or with an application, then do drop me a line, again at hello@graduatejobpodcast.com. Finally, if you would like to support the show and to help ensure that I can keep putting out great episodes, one way you can do it is by clicking on the Amazon links in the show notes. Amazon provide a small commission to me if you do so, it doesn’t cost you anything but helps to keep the lights on here with hosting and the like. Right that is everything from me, join me next week when I have a very special secret guest for you! It’s a goodie. I hope you enjoyed the show today, but more importantly, I hope you use it, and apply it. See you next week!